101, Competition in telford just basics ?

[kendale]

Hi
Don’t post often but do get pissed when you all knock the 2 and 5 day courses that you attended, most of the people on here that are training did only do a 2 day course and started training yes that does include a moderator of this site that seems to think his been locksmithing for generations instead of just 3 years but in fairness you are the only 1 I know of that spend hundreds of hours practicing until you perfected the art.

Just for the record I share a training room with IR Training and have split the cost of the level 3 NVQ papers which we are having written for general locksmithing and a level 3 NVQ paperwork in auto locksmithing, but am not personally anything to do with the company as stated on here.

I seem to get the blame for destroying the locksmith industry single handed, had any of you been locksmithing any time you would know of a company called open ups which actually started training Joe public in locksmithing some 16 years ago from an office in Hastings with grants from the government, after open ups was TK Consultants from Bolton it was only after these 2 company’s stopped trading that just locks started teaching locksmithing.
The master locksmiths was a great organisation but simply seemed to open its doors to shoe repairers and key cutters to gain extra revenue but most of the locksmiths left at this point, had the Mla instead said lets keep the locksmiths and go for a proper recognised NVQ the locksmith industry would not be in the state it is now.

You don’t gain respect by doing training or knocking training organisations, respect is something you earn and takes years not get within a couple of years of being in the industry, I slated somebody on here for wanting to start copying picks had i known it was a 12 year old in the USA I would not have done it, but if everybody starts copying who is going to make the picks its like cutting your own throat yet again.
I advertised a course on eBay knowing it will be removed not to sell a course but the name is now seen and the hits on the website went up 200 a day its a very cheap media I run a business not a charity, last year profit from locksmithing £42,000 profit from training £160,000 why would I stop training its not in my interest to stop and personally if everybody on here started training it would not bother me in the least my reputation is well known throughout the industry having been in it for years I do not need to whinge and gripe I am not trying to make a name for myself i did that years ago respect is earnt not given.
We have offered other training courses such as intruder alarms, CCTV etc which Gardiner have offered to teach, We also offer access control which is taught by instructors with no less than 17 years experience each.
Its seems this course has been knocked by members of 101 that have not done the course or read the web site.
It seems everybody on here wants a name and shame area ok how sad is that in reality I can’t think for one minute what good that will do the industry, how about I name with dates the people I trained that are training on here that I personally taught in say the last 4 years I could even name them for all to see on my website but that will just make me as small minded and in all honesty I really don’t care, if you need to stoop that low you really don’t have much of a business to loose if you have to slate another company for doing what you are also doing all I can think is your business must be folding, if you spent the time building a business instead of complaining about other businesses you would be thriving.

As for non destructive entry its great but in reality it is also a necessity to use a drill whether for speed or a malfunction of a lock, if a key does not work nor does your pick.
Why does this remind me of somebody drilling seven holes in a lock and now claiming never to have used a drill its crap.
I think you will find when you become qualified locksmiths sorry I will re-word that, when you actually have to sit an exam you will be surprised to find there is a little more involved in locksmithing than picking a few locks nde style, sounds good that N.D.E does it not, sounds like a term the military would use for Now Drill Et ok.

I would be interested to learn also just how many members on here actually trade as a locksmith full time, I don’t mean working full time for react-fast doing locks plumbing and B & Q kitchen fitting or Timpson’s for instance but full time locksmithing running a business they have actually built up, I am guessing the answer to be about 10% max.

How about a competition in Telford 1 evening at the MLA show between members of 101 say £50 an entry, winner takes all for fastest time, doesn’t have to be anything great somebody on here mentioned basics as being picking BS 3621 locks with 2 wires and Impressioning cylinders, How about a Chubb 3g114 with 2 wires and impressioning a Yale or something to allow all to enter, just a thought. A.M if you decide to enter let me know I just might practice.
_________________
Just Locks & Security

[dazza]

chill! man chill!

[pizarro]

Don’t post often but do get pissed when you all knock the 2 and 5 day courses that you attended,...

If people can't knock the course that they attended, what do you want them to do? knock the ones that they havn't been on? A course can be bad for several reasons, like it may be just rubish, or it may be the wrong course for that individual at that particular instance in time. It could be too simple and/or focusing on an area that the person didn't want and/or realise before attending. Saying a course may be rubbish is ok, so long as people explain why they think that, that way the individuals can descide if it is suited for them or not before attending.

[Varjeal]

I don't live in the U.K. but I do trade as a locksmith full time. This post is in response to your post directly, not to the course(s) or material you may specifically teach.

I believe that the vast majority of remarks against 1-2-or 3 day courses goes something as follows:

1. NO course can make you a properly trained locksmith in 3 days.
2. ANY course that claims to do such is suspect.
3. Teaching people how to solely drill locks does NOT make them a locksmith.
4. Teaching people how to solely PICK locks also does not make them a locksmith.
5. On this site, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and everyone has a right to state that opinion if its done in an intelligent matter abiding by the rules of this site.

I understand your frustration with some of the comments made by posters, but your post does read rather accusatory (is that a word?)

You state:

Its seems this course has been knocked by members of 101 that have not done the course or read the web site.

Quite likely, that is true, but since neither I nor you have absolute proof of that, it becomes necessary for the both of us to judge the criticisms (whether positive or negative) with some restraint, and brush those off that do not seem to apply. Let your work and the people who have actually taken the course speak for themselves.

You also say:

As for non destructive entry its great but in reality it is also a necessity to use a drill whether for speed or a malfunction of a lock, if a key does not work nor does your pick.

This sounds partly like a "time is money" statement, and that irks me a little, though I'm going to choose to think that "speed" means "emergency access required".

Locksmithing does indeed require knowing more than how to pick or even drill locks, most of which is beyond the scope of this website. The fact that I've been in this trade for seven years and owned my own business for five yet am still learning new things each day I believe is adequate proof that a weekend of training is not enough.

The problem seems that many courses in the UK (much like some offered in N.A.) seem to advertise that adequate training can be provided over a weekend, and that's what I believe causes most posters to be critical of courses without having taking them, myself included.

Picking challenges prove nothing other than one person is faster than another, and as you've mentioned previously, does not give instant respect.

I understand your frustration, but would appreciate a less hostile venting in the future. Best of luck in your business.

[Chucklz]

Wow. There is a lot of emotion there kendale. I think Varjeal pretty much covered it. Except for this. You have a whole lot of sentences with very few periods (full stops).
You better take care.

Once you start missing periods... Bam. Babies.

(I hope the UK'ers get the joke.)

[jordyh]

I'm not from the UK, and i STILL get it.

[bonez]

In defence of ken

He doesn't state on his courses that you will be a locksmith after
three days,but that it is a firm foot hold to start off in the industry!

After seeing some of the blank faces sat in the training room when
i did my course made me think a few of them were not happy with
what they learnt!,but saying that a lot of them did no research on the
trade.

They paid there money and expected to walk away after a a few days
a fully qualified locksmith,this sadly is not going to happen!

But we all have to start somewhere i wonder how many actually do go
fully in to the trade! after sitting a course not many i bet!

Maybe it's the hours of hard work you have to put in or the cost that
puts them off! or that they realise it's not an easy way to earn £1000
a week!

The hours are long and it's not glamerous,but it is the most interesting
of jobs.

cheers one and all.

jb

[pinky]

i have swapped a number of mails with ken over past few days, and none heated. i know ken better than most and ken knows me better than most, and you need to understand our ways with each other.

ken and i have no gripes with each other , and more is often read into what we say to each other.
I know from his post what he is saying, hes suggesting if you have done his course and your upset with it, then sound off as much as you like, its your right to, if not then you have no right , if speaking on hear say only.

of all the 2 day courses out their, kens has always been and still is the best value for money 2 day basic course available, you get from it what you put into it once the course is done, hes the prime choice over the pretenders out there everytime. just because of my own opinion on other courses he runs, does not change the fact that his 2 day course is the best value option out their, and you get your monies worth, that has never changed, it wont make you a locksmith, only the trainees commitment and further training and practice can do this.

having spoke to rob at ir via mail and been informed of his intentions on his auto course, what ive heard is good, so jury is out and im sure time will tell whether its a good course or not, but in fairness the guy is going for an NVQ and is at least it seems trying to do the right thing, so as i say , time will tell, i will keep an open mind until feedback proves things one way or the other, but thanks to rob for clearing odds and ends up for me anyway, and on this basis im happy to keep an open mind.

[peacefullockie]

I did the just locks training course 6 years ago.

I was dubious as to its worth when laying out the 700 pounds at the beginning of the 2 day course as most were.
It was a lot to take in and to be honest gave me a big headache as i felt as if i was chasing my arse most of the time and constantly worrying if i had missed anything.
Looking back it was very hard but my perserverence and almost obsessive will to learn everything carried me through.
It has only been the last year that i have started curtain picking b/s locks,i got my first decoder 2 years ago. A securefast one for the sitex.
I drilled on warrants for 4 years and i became very good at it mainly due to the worry of driving back 50 odd miles to drop keys off!!
As others say, you only get what you put in.
If you have the inner drive and passion to push you to learn then you will get there.
If you show this then other established locksmiths will help you along as they understand what you are going through.
My advice to anyone wanting to do a 2 day course is do it but understand that its not going to be enough on its own.
You will have to study every lock, be able to identify every colour case make and 2 or 3 lever.
Be confident in picking cylinders. ie get a electric pick gun.
Know when to use your letterbox tool. ie upvc internal handle or on a thumbturn etc.
Drill mortice to start then move on to decoders and curtain picks gradually.
ID upvc mechanisms when broken and where to get them from.
learn all the techniques that arent shown on the courses ie what bullet locks you can use your hook pick to open.
There are so many of these little techniques to pick up on and it takes time learn them all.
Once you get into it and start advertising you want to learn it all so you feel like a proper locksmith. Other wise all you are going to be is maintenance worker parading as a locksmith.
It is the most enjoyable jobs out there (if you can call it a job).
There is always something new to learn. You meet lots of good people.
and every day you feel that you have achieved something.
This is my take on it anyway and it did me ok.

[peacefullockie]

P.S i notice that this thread started almost 1 year ago.
By this time Ken Dale is proberly a millionaire on a yacht in the bahamas with even more gold now that bobby george.
Fair play to you. I got my moneys worth out of the course.
Just a shame that so many havent.
Thats down to them and their will to progress from it.
So the moral of this story is is that it is an opening to becoming a locksmith and you are supplied with almost all the knowledge to get you on track.
If you are work shy dont do it!!
Another thing just popped to mind.
if you are a criminal would you do it?
PRE CRIMINAL RECORD CHECKS SHOULD BE MORALLY OR LEGALLY BOUND BEFORE BEING ACCEPTED.
unfortunately id say money would overide this moral standards but thats life.

[New-York-Locksmith]

I did the just locks training course 6 years ago.

I was dubious as to its worth when laying out the 700 pounds at the beginning of the 2 day course as most were.

700 quids for a 2 day course. I gotta get in the locksmith 2 day courses biz!!!

[Raccoon]

LOL. Is this serious? A fly-by-night driller killer course trainer is complaining that he's being picked on? Yikes!

He should be thankful nobody posted his picture on a website for rapists. Taking people's money to show them how to operate a drill is RAPE.

No means No.

[Shrub]

Ken isnt a fly by night driller killer and is a very good trainer by all accounts althouygh ive never even spoken to him his reputation for decent training proceedes him,

Racc with respect i would agree with you had this been about another trainer but i have to stick up for who and what i believe Kens training is abnout and how he does it,

This thread was made just over a year ago and it was made in retaliation to a thread that was locked and then eventually removed i think, this one however was left as it was a fair enough post that was made,

I think youve made a bit of a bobo on this one mate

[peacefullockie]

I can back shrub up on this.

Its different over here id say.

We learn very quickly and listen to what we are being told instead of jumping into things unlike some presidents.

Any how every one has to start some where and these courses do give people a great kickstart.

NDE come to us all in time.

[acl]

Rapist?!!
Ihave been visiting this site for 3 or 4 years now but that is the single most STUPID thing i have ever read here,i dont personally know Ken but i do know of his reputation and,from what i hear a fine safe engineer and good guy,i hope to fu*k he has already retired and gone to pastures new(the USA id heard) i hope he doesnt end up seeing this shite or end up in New bloody Mexico!!
The phrase "think before you speak" or "dont be such an arse" springs to mind