Kwikset repinning question...

[geonap]

Ok, I have managed to completely dissassmeble a Kwikset lock for repinning (so I can practice with fewer pins). Here is my question... while removing the cylinder all the pins and springs fell out (go figure).

From what I can see there were five "regular" pins that function the lock and five pins in a parallel row setting next to these. What purpose do the pins in this parallel row serve? They don't appear to "fall" into place... it looks like they just sit there.

Also... I have a Qwikset rekeying set (which are color coded). Do I use "one" of each of the appropriate color pin (with the spring etc) or does it require two? So far I have managed to totally mangle several springs (hence the reason I had to order some more).

So in short:

1 - What purpose does the parallel set of pins serve (it doesn't look like they do anything).

2 - One pin plus the spring (which is what I have tried) or is there a second pin in each slot too?


Thank you all in advance! I'm doing my best to learn this stuff as fast as I can.

[geonap]

Ok... I've been examining the original pins from the Kiwkset lock and have determined 5 of them seem to be the pins you change to rekey the lock, and the other five appear to tbe the 5 "top" pins.

The part I am still confused about is this... do these pins go in pairs into the functional tube portion? I don't think they do, because I am pretty sure there were some pins in the pin holding section which sits parallel to that. I have read several reppining guides but can't seem to find the answer. Again, thanks in advance.

[geonap]

Ok... I've been examining the original pins from the Kiwkset lock and have determined 5 of them seem to be the pins you change to rekey the lock, and the other five appear to tbe the 5 "top" pins.

The part I am still confused about is this... do these pins go in pairs into the functional tube portion? I don't think they do, because I am pretty sure there were some pins in the pin holding section which sits parallel to that. I have read several reppining guides but can't seem to find the answer. Again, thanks in advance.

Even with out my new springs (since not surprisingly I managed to destroy the original ones), I figured it out. For those of you who are stumbling across this thread (fellow Noob's) The pin with the pointed in goes in first, point down, then the (flat on both sides) top pin, then the spring.

Geesh... I guess I'm all about learning things the hard way. I'm figuring it out though!

[Einzee]

Even with out my new springs (since not surprisingly I managed to destroy the original ones), I figured it out. For those of you who are stumbling across this thread (fellow Noob's) The pin with the pointed in goes in first, point down, then the (flat on both sides) top pin, then the spring.

Geesh... I guess I'm all about learning things the hard way. I'm figuring it out though!

Yes, the order you described is correct. I would like to mention that some kits do not have pointed pins. Instead, they have a small bevel at both ends which work in the same manner as the pointed pins.

[jordyh]

Could you tell me more about those "parallel pins"?
Makes me think of the 'Mitchel & Collin Antiklop', (antiklop is Dutch for Antibump) and i thought those were patented.

If they are what i think they are, they are ment to jam the plug and prevent it from turning after picking or bumping. On the M&C, TOOOL has wasted 3 locks, with plug spinners and everything else they had tro try and pass that second set of pins.

All M&C locks had to be disassembled when the "relocking pins" were activated.


Yours,

Jordy

[jordyh]

On the M&C, TOOOL has wasted 3 locks, with plug spinners and everything else they had tro try and pass that second set of pins.

All M&C locks had to be disassembled when the "relocking pins" were activated.

This part can be found on TOOOL's video "What the bump".


Yours,


Jordy

[pip]

do you have the key for this lock ?
if you don't,
then you can repin this lock any way you want
and for a real challenge
if you do have the key
repin the lock to fit the key

perhaps, next time you remove the core from a cylinder
do this inside a plastic bag
so that you won't have to go on a pin/spring hunt

[Chucklz]

geonap

When repinning the Kwikset cylinder, you might find it easier to just gently pry the silver piece off the top of the cylinder that keeps the pins/springs in.

If all the pins fell out when you attempted to rekey the lock... did a plug follower come in the kit?


Jordyh

I think geonap was referring to the top pins, just having a bit of trouble describing what he meant. I don't know of any lock in the States that uses any kind of Antiklop system.

[geonap]

Here is a picture of the cylinder I was talking about

http://www.geonap.com/images/locks/cylinder_pic.jpg

I have since determined the top pins, bottom pins, and springs all go in the places where you can see I have colored pins.

Though I still am unsure what purpose that parallel set of dimples serves. They are too small to hold either top or bottom pin... can someone tell me what they do?

[geonap]

geonap

When repinning the Kwikset cylinder, you might find it easier to just gently pry the silver piece off the top of the cylinder that keeps the pins/springs in.

If all the pins fell out when you attempted to rekey the lock... did a plug follower come in the kit?


Jordyh

I think geonap was referring to the top pins, just having a bit of trouble describing what he meant. I don't know of any lock in the States that uses any kind of Antiklop system.

I do have a follower... I just didn't realize how "valuable" of a purpose it served... lol... I learned a VALUABLE lesson though.

[Chucklz]

The other set of holes in the plug is for something called construction keying. In between the top and bottom pins, a ball bearing is placed. This is used in place (or in conjucntion with master pins). The ball bearings create a shear line for the key construction workers are given. The construction key is cut so that all the ball bearings are in the plug when this key is used. When construction is finished, the owner is given his/her key. When the owner uses the key, the balls are raised into the plug at the shear line. Turning the key, causes the balls to fall into those holes making the construction key inoperable.

Lets use a single pin lock example.

Your lock as a #3 bottom pin, and a ball bearing that is the equivalent of 2 stops. The construction key is cut to 5. The 5 key will open the lock.

Owner inserts key with 3 cut. The ball bearing is raised into the plug at the shear line. Turning the key allows the ball bearing to be captured in the hole in the plug. This removes the ball bearing from the pin stack. The construction key, ie the key cut to 5 is no longer operational. Only the owners key functions.

[geonap]

The other set of holes in the plug is for something called construction keying. In between the top and bottom pins, a ball bearing is placed. This is used in place (or in conjucntion with master pins). The ball bearings create a shear line for the key construction workers are given. The construction key is cut so that all the ball bearings are in the plug when this key is used. When construction is finished, the owner is given his/her key. When the owner uses the key, the balls are raised into the plug at the shear line. Turning the key, causes the balls to fall into those holes making the construction key inoperable.

Lets use a single pin lock example.

Your lock as a #3 bottom pin, and a ball bearing that is the equivalent of 2 stops. The construction key is cut to 5. The 5 key will open the lock.

Owner inserts key with 3 cut. The ball bearing is raised into the plug at the shear line. Turning the key allows the ball bearing to be captured in the hole in the plug. This removes the ball bearing from the pin stack. The construction key, ie the key cut to 5 is no longer operational. Only the owners key functions.

Makes total sense! Thank you! I never realized such a thing existed (and have always changed the locks when I moved somewhere). Thanks for expanding my knowledge.

[geonap]

The other set of holes in the plug is for something called construction keying. In between the top and bottom pins, a ball bearing is placed. This is used in place (or in conjucntion with master pins). The ball bearings create a shear line for the key construction workers are given. The construction key is cut so that all the ball bearings are in the plug when this key is used. When construction is finished, the owner is given his/her key. When the owner uses the key, the balls are raised into the plug at the shear line. Turning the key, causes the balls to fall into those holes making the construction key inoperable.

Lets use a single pin lock example.

Your lock as a #3 bottom pin, and a ball bearing that is the equivalent of 2 stops. The construction key is cut to 5. The 5 key will open the lock.

Owner inserts key with 3 cut. The ball bearing is raised into the plug at the shear line. Turning the key allows the ball bearing to be captured in the hole in the plug. This removes the ball bearing from the pin stack. The construction key, ie the key cut to 5 is no longer operational. Only the owners key functions.

Chucklz... had a thought which made me think of a question. Would it be possible to place a "non-fitting" highly raised key into one of these locks and "push" the bearings out of the way (thereby negating the constuction key), or does the cylinder actually have to "turn" to move the bearings out of the way?

[Chucklz]

Your welcome.

You could also use a system like this to create a system in which you can have a rapidly rekeyable lock. Perhaps even twice rekeyable (2 balls per rekey, so as to be non trivial).

This isn't the only use of ball bearings in locks. In locks that are going to to receive heavy use, the first and perhaps second pins will have a ball as the lower pin. This significantly reduces wear on the bottom two pins.

[Chucklz]

You need to have the ball bearings at the shear line. Think of them as pins that are captured and removed. The rotation is absolutely critical to removal. The ball bearings fall into those holes in the plug, and are removed from the pin stack upon rotation. I suggest drawing a picture of the bottom pin, ball bearing, top pin and spring in relation to the shear line when both keys are used.

The concept can be a bit tricky, but the drawings will help.