Combination Locks

[thequantaleaper]

I don't know if these have been referenced or mentioned before... but here are a couple of things I have learned from combination locks that my help some in the quest to solve their riddles:

1. Any combination lock using the standard disk system has not one but 2 working combinations. The second combination is used in the reverse manner (left, right, then left). The last number is the same and the middle number is 2 numbers (the width of the locking pin on the disk) higher than the middle number on the standard combination. (i.e. if the RLR combination is 28,17,36... than the reverse LRL will be x,19,36)

and

2. If you are working with a comination lock that has previously been used by someone else who didn't spin the dial before leaving, and you want to figure out the combo... than this may help as a first run attempt:

1. The number it is on is the last number.
2. Turn it to the left till you feel/hear it hit the next disk. This is the middle number.
3. Continue turning to the left till you feel it again. Your now approaching the disk that is knocked out of place when you close the lock (the other two are not changed). When you feel it engage the last disk, than your first number will be within 10 numbers of that point... 5 left and 5 right but usually it falls on the higher side.

So now all you have to do is run those 10 possible combo's. If none of those work... than the person who used it last was smart enough to spin the disk around before leaving.

I have tried this and found it to work on the 2 different model Master Combo Locks I have. I would love feedback on anyone else's experience with this technique.

[Treeson]

Good info, thanks for that.

Unfortunetly, I belive the opening technique is semi-well known and has been discussed before, but, its still really greath that you discovered iton your own.

I particualry liked the part about the reverse combo, I didn't know that. If it works, thats really interesting.

Cheers,

Treeson

[clayton1123]

Sorry to burst your bubble but master locks turn the dial when the shackel is pulled up

[thequantaleaper]

I noticed that when the two different model master's that I have, open, they don't throw the visible dial out... and that when the shackle opens/closes.. it only changes one of the disks and that disk is the one responsible for the first number... and usually no more than 5 numbers. The other two remain unchanged.

I don't know if this is universal, but it is a trait on both locks I have.

[CapnCurry]

*Sometimes*, the Master will spin itself when the shackle is pulled up. I was playing with my cut-away from Foley-Belsaw for nearly an hour (I know, I know... "obsess much?" ), and watching what it did when I maniuplated the shackle. It seems to scramble itself slightly based on the sheer amount of spring tension getting thrown around in there; it didn't look like there was a design element responsible for the effect. If I opened and closed it very carefully, it was possible to open it a second time without re-dialing the combination.

When the lock does scramble itself, it's really not by much. Even if the technique listed above doesn't divulge the exact second and third numbers, it should be within one or two stops of center in both cases.

And, it's true that the lock can be opened by dialing a left-right-left combination instead of a right-left-right. I never worried about finding the modified numbers out, because I couldn't think of a single thing that would net me in practical terms... but I filed the knowledge away just the same. It's nice to see that someone else not only verified the finding, but took it the extra mile.

[SS454]

Even if it does scamble it, like you said it's not by much. Also, try dailing your combination with each number 1-2 mumbers higher or lower. Most times, it will still open. Not a very low tolerance on those locks.

[lockedin]

Sams choice made a guide with pictures a few days back: viewtopic.php?t=12179

[hzatorsk]

....
1. Any combination lock using the standard disk system has not one but 2 working combinations. The second combination is used in the reverse manner (left, right, then left)
....

Geesh... yes... we've covered it:

viewtopic.php?t=10403

Some i personally find 8 & 4 a bit smoother than the 6 & 3 offsets that "DrStu" suggestion last November... but... whatever works for you.

z