European hardware -lever locks, profile cylinders specific for European locks. European lock picks and European locks.
by Jlo » 23 Mar 2006 4:04
A little off topic but did anyone see Disaster Masters last night. The program showed a clip of next weeks program and the homesserve guys were visiting a break inn.
The fron UPVC doos has litterally been kicked through, I mean the Locking mechinism and the part where the door hook bolts come out was still attached to the door jam but it was like the inside of the plastic door panelling had just peeled in)
May be it was an older door but quite an eye opener. Its on next Wednesday if anyone wants to watch it.
Cheers
Jlo
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by haldor » 23 Mar 2006 4:19
I've done a fair few calls to break ins on these doors and mostly people don't lock them fully they just rely on the latch! Some mechanisms have no deadbolt and just latch and two rollers, they need upgrading.
Burglars don't pick locks (generally) .
A good system with hooks, shootbolts and mushroom rollers is quite secure with a decent cylinder fitted flush to the handles.
Let's face it with enough time and no disturbance boots and crowbars will get them into any wood or upvc door.
I get to so many break ins and come to the same conclusion as the police , the idiots forgot to lock up!
" Opening a lock is like cooking a small fish" -Lao Tzu
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by markke77 » 24 Mar 2006 18:36
Anglian Windows are supplying PVCu doors now with euro barrels that have vertical cuts halfway down, between the 3rd and 4th pins. If anybody tries to snap the lock it breaks at this point leaving the lock reasonably secure with the ramaining 3 pins.
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by illusion » 24 Mar 2006 18:46
These are called 'snap to secure' cylinders I think.
Mul-T-Lock I know make this, but I don't know of any others.
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by mh » 30 Mar 2006 13:16
If you are concerned with snapping, pulling, drilling, etc,
there are a lot of cylinder covers
(I don't know the correct English term, but pictures are e.g. here: http://www.wagner-sicherheit.de/icon_se ... laege.html )
on the market that cover the front of a Euro cylinder reasonably well, while still looking nice. (You can also get white / black versions for plastic doors, e.g.)
Cheers,
Michael
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by prim » 30 Mar 2006 16:31
mh wrote:If you are concerned with snapping, pulling, drilling, etc, there are a lot of cylinder covers (I don't know the correct English term, but pictures are e.g. here: http://www.wagner-sicherheit.de/icon_se ... laege.html ) on the market that cover the front of a Euro cylinder reasonably well, while still looking nice. (You can also get white / black versions for plastic doors, e.g.) Cheers, Michael
Hi mh
They are called Escutcheon plates, they will not stop picking, pulling, drilling could stop snapping if the cylinder is flush with plate, but there is a way around that.
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by mh » 30 Mar 2006 17:29
prim wrote:Hi mh They are called Escutcheon plates, they will not stop picking, pulling, drilling could stop snapping if the cylinder is flush with plate, but there is a way around that.
Hi prim,
In Germany a version of these Escutcheon plates is rather common that does stop pulling, and also considerably hinders drilling.
That's achieved by covering the whole front of the cylinder, incl. the front of the plug with a hardened piece that has only a slot for the key (and can of course rotate). See the link above for examples.
Cheers,
mh
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by illusion » 30 Mar 2006 17:32
I wonder how difficult it would be to remove one of those... with force?
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by mh » 30 Mar 2006 17:53
illusion wrote:I wonder how difficult it would be to remove one of those... with force?
You could always use a grinding machine to remove any kind of metal with time and noise. For burglaries, that's uncommon in residential areas.
For other forceful attacks, that depends on how they are mounted. Some come with 8mm hardened screws that go all the way through the (wooden) door. Also they are usually kind of hard to grip due to their shape.
Some don't have knobs, and some have knobs that are formed so that the knob cannot be gripped easily, either (e.g. ZIkon).
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by illusion » 30 Mar 2006 17:56
Thanks for clearing that up.
The slot at the front of the escrutions reminds me of the bit over the Abus Discus padlock keyways.
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by prim » 31 Mar 2006 5:45
mh wrote: Hi prim,
In Germany a version of these Escutcheon plates is rather common that does stop pulling, and also considerably hinders drilling.
That's achieved by covering the whole front of the cylinder, incl. the front of the plug with a hardened piece that has only a slot for the key (and can of course rotate). See the link above for examples.
Cheers, mh
Hi mh
Yes I see what you mean,
Is there any where I can gain more infor on this and where I can buy from? hopfully in English text
Thanks
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by p1ckf1sh » 31 Mar 2006 5:47
mh wrote:If you are concerned with snapping, pulling, drilling, etc, there are a lot of cylinder covers
If you are really concerned about brute force attacks against the cylinder, and ready to shell out some dough, take a look at these:
http://www.wagner-sicherheit.de/cgi-bin ... 4695126115
The SSDeV folks had quite some praise for them in a TV talkshow interview. I know that MSC already sells decoders, but this is a pretty new and special design seen not often, so I doubt that burglars will rush to buy a 400€ piece of decoding equipment when their crowbar still opens your neighbors window.
The 5 pins you see on this one are telescopic, and pin-in-pin IIRC and I don't see a lot of possibilitys to put the lcking mechanism under tension (for picking) so I think it is a pretty hard task to open this one manually.
Have not seen one in real life yet, though...
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by prim » 31 Mar 2006 5:53
Hi p1ckf1sh
Sorry I can't read german.
Them extra holes are they for some sort of pin rather than a screw? as they are not countersunk
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by mh » 31 Mar 2006 6:23
p1ckf1sh wrote:If you are really concerned about brute force attacks against the cylinder, and ready to shell out some dough, take a look at these:
Somehow your link doesn't work for me, but I assume that you mean the Geminy stuff - cf. http://www.geminy.info/ (also in English)
IMHO they are like tubular locks, with pin-in-pin, and lateral (not rotary) movement - I don't see why they should be particularly secure, except for that they are seldom and not well explored.
Their models for vending machines however seem to incorporate electronics; that might require entirely different 'picking' skills...
Cheers,
mh
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by p1ckf1sh » 31 Mar 2006 8:04
prim wrote:Them extra holes are they for some sort of pin rather than a screw? as they are not countersunk
The five holes are the pins. The entire rounded casing can slide up and down to reveal or hide the cylinder/keyway. When pushed up (locked) you have to use the key (they call it "Pfannenschlüssel", best I can come up with as a translation is "pan key"). The key is a flat thingy which has pins coming out where you see the holes on the lock. You put it on there surface to surface, pushing the pins into the lock (which looked like screws to you) and unlocking the mechanism. Then you can slide down the casing and unlock the cylnder.
Maybe the other link posted a little later will explain it better, gonna look at it. And it is not an ultra-secure thing- it is after all just another lock that can certainly be compromised. But it adds security, because someone who came to pull the plug or crack the cylinder now has another obstacle.
The SSDeV seem to consider it a good thing, which could mean that it is a pretty secure thing or that they are glad the industry gave them another nice challenge... 
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