A possibly not so new awesome lock

[Treeson]

Hello all,

All of the locks in my area tend to be Master locks. I'm not talking about just the lock on someone's shed, theres some "high security" places such as the hospital and many back doors to stores.

I have never tried to open any of these, but some of the stores I have seen them on definetly have stuff worth protecting. Perhaps I should drop by and tell them about the low security of their lock, and maybe demonstrate, with their consent of course!


Cheers,

Treeson

[LockNewbie21]

Sounds like a good hearted thing to do, but excersize caution, because as good as your intentions are, as soona s they know your a lockpicker, and something is stolen guess who's door the police will be knocking on, i only helped out my niebors becuase they know me well, plus theres only lawn mowers and grass seed in there anyways. But it depends the store owner might take it as a kind jesture, or on the other hand wonder why you all of a sudden interested in his "low security locks". All in all its a nice thing to do, but to avoind un nessessary attention use caution.

Good Luck Buddy,


Andy

[mh]

Not sure if I agree with the assessment. Most cruciform locks, ie ones with 3 or 4 rows of pins, are quite easy to pick.

I agree, and I have 2 things to add:

1 - in Germany, such locks were used to enhance the security of a certain type of mortise locks that don't even have levers, just depend on the shape of the key. "Buntbartschloesser". Don't know the English name. Rather insecure of course, and an insert like this http://www.basi.tv/cgi-bin/Anzeige/anze ... itstechnik would convert them into 6 pin pin-tumbler locks, without changing the door hardware.
It meant that you mount such small cruciform lock inside the mortise lock: The key won't go inside anymore, only the new cruciform key will operate the lock.
BUT: Before, you had to keep the key inside the lock while at home, so that no one from the outside could insert a key. Now, if you leave the key in the lock, the 'plug' can be turned from the outside with any screwdriver. Somehow the two manufacturers I had samples from failed to mention that

2 - Also in Germany, high-end alarm systems were for a long time usually armed using a mortise lock ("Blockschloss") that can't be locked while not all windows are closed etc (the blocking function), and also you couldn't enter the premises without unlocking it (false alarm prevention).
And there were mainly three types on the market - one for Euro profile cylinders, one with levers -
and one cruciform style by Zeiss Ikon.
But that one reacts different to picking: Pick it, and turn it, and at a certain angle a pin will enter the lock from the side, releasing a microswitch that triggers the tamper circuit. Or drill out the plug for the same effect. A nice concept

[Chucklz]

The English would be Warded lock.

I have a question about the cylinder described as "Schlüssellochsperrer" Is this removeable? That is, do you insert it into the keyway of the lock then lock it, preventing the key from entering until you remove it?

[mh]

I have a question about the cylinder described as "Schlüssellochsperrer" Is this removeable? That is, do you insert it into the keyway of the lock then lock it, preventing the key from entering until you remove it?

Yes, that's the way it's used.
"Schlüsselloch" is a 'key hole' - or keyway,
and "Sperrer" is something that blocks.

So it's to some extent an early version of the Geminy system ( http://www.geminy.info/ )

It meant that you had to carry 2 keys; the key for the "Schlüssellochsperrer" being long and thin and ripping holes in your pockets...
But it's kind of hard to pick, because the plug and keyway are so small. No good way to apply tension, and some of them had T-shaped keyways - using a combined picking / tensioning method doesn't work well in small T-shaped keyways.
Yet they could usually be removed rather easily with a little force when the escrutcheon plate (? is that called escrutcheon plate for warded locks as well?) was removed.

Cheers,
mh

[lockedin]

With cruciform locks, you can easily tension on any one or two opposing sides, and because the pins are in one of the arms of the crosses, they are very accessible and the shape of the keyway guides the lock pick. Also because the cross has a small size, the lift on the pins is small, which again makes for easy picking. In short don't waste your money on a X lock, especially one made in China. It's a gimmick.

Another thing with those cheaper made in China cruciform locks is their lack of pins. I know that this is not automatic sign of the security of a lock, but my cheap club for my steering wheel had a cruciform lock alternating with one-two-one-two pins. I've seen up to six pins on each side of more expensive cruciform locks.

[illusion]

Papaiz make a really nice cruciform lock with 24 pairs of pins.. i'd pay money for that.

[lockedin]

For those cruciform locks has anyone every thought of making a pick gun that snaps in 4 directions (meaning there are four different needles in a cruciform shape)? I was thinking about it the other day, the only problem would be where and how to apply tension. It made me think about how useful those designs that went around the plug a while back could be if they could be made to work.

[greyman]

For those cruciform locks has anyone every thought of making a pick gun that snaps in 4 directions (meaning there are four different needles in a cruciform shape)? I was thinking about it the other day, the only problem would be where and how to apply tension. It made me think about how useful those designs that went around the plug a while back could be if they could be made to work.

On the same thread, you could try for a 4-way sputnik or comb pick. i haven't seen anything like that but it's possible in theory
I'd be surprised if anyone makes something like that since there would not be a lot of demand for it.