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by Clipper » 5 Apr 2006 18:51
Hi there
I'm new to lock picking and have read various tutorials including the MIT tutorial, and would like to know how effetive Double Sided Picks are at opening Wafer/Disk tumbler locks (single).
What picks would you recommend for these types of locks? I'm in the process of choosing some and want to pick the right ones
Cheers!
P.S, Is it just me, or is the defect in wafer tumbler locks more diffiuclt to visualize then the defect in pin tumbler locks?
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Clipper
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by Shrub » 5 Apr 2006 19:58
Not sure what you mean by defect,
Disc locks are totally differant to wafer locks and you wont get much advice on disc locks (abloy etc) as they are advanced section only also you wont pick them as a beginer and also you need to make the specialist tools to do it.
Wafer locks are easy but are not tumbler locks and double wafer locks arent much better, double sided picks like a ball pick or snowman pick is the best way to go with them.
You should go with a pin tumbler lock to begin with i/we dont know where you are from so its not easy to suggest what to go for but if in the uk go for a standard yale and if in the us go for a kwickset.
These locks allow you to repin them so you have fewer pins to pick to begin with.
Have a good read at all the beginer threads on here to progress your knowledge a bit more.
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Shrub
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by Chucklz » 5 Apr 2006 20:21
Wafer locks are a totally different feel, as you usually require a fair bit more tension as well as a different sense of what is going on in the lock. If you are referring to the double sided picks sold by SouthOrd, HPC etc, I wouldn't bother. I own a set, and have not found them any less effective than a standard pick and tension wrench.
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by pinsetter » 12 Apr 2006 10:42
OK, a bit on Wafer Tumbler locks.
First off, the MIT guide calls them Disc Tumblers, and that is misleading. Wafer Tumblers is the correct name for them and a Disc Tumbler lock is a totally different beast. The MIT guide is somewhat misleading in that the names it uses for certain things are not what we commonly know them as.
For instance, they call raking "scrubbing", they call Wafer Tumblers "Disc Tumblers", etc...etc.... After a lot of studying you'll understand what is meant in the guide even though they use different names for certain parts or operations.
Now as for the actual Wafer Tumbler locks:
The amount of tension is the key with these, as in most pin tumbler locks, however, I find Wafer Tumblers are more finicky with tension than are pins.
It largely depends on the application as to the amount of tension to apply.
For instance, Wafer tumblers in desks, cabinets, tool boxes, etc..., usually require VERY LITTLE tension. Sometimes just laying your finger on the tension wrench is sufficient.
On the other hand, Wafer Tumblers used in automotive applications, such as some door locks by International, require a lot of tension to pick in the right direction due to the plug of the lock also having to operate the spring loaded latching mechanism.
As for picking the locks, they are very easy once you get the feel for them. Remember that the tumblers are much closer together than pin tumblers, and remember that these locks are VERY susceptable to raking techniques. Double sided picks are not necessary. I use a regular tension wrench and a medium sized half diamond pick almost exclusively on these locks. Just play with the tension until you find that you can feel the wafers set. With each wafer that sets there should also be a small movement of the plug. Once you get the tension right, hold steady pressure and just use the half diamond like a rake. Once you get the technique right you can rapidly rake the wafers and feel them set in an almost "zipper" like effect.
Also to remember, wafer locks have no splits in the wafer like 2 part pin systems, so there are no false sets. Once you feel a wafer "set", it is set in the correct position.
This does not apply to sidebar wafer locks. They are a totally different ball game and cannot be discussed in detail here as they are restricted to the advanced sections.
Hope this helps!
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pinsetter
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by LockNewbie21 » 12 Apr 2006 11:35
Darn Shrub you killed my newest question i got a 7 disc lock from a local tractor supply, i thought ehh its cheap and i never had one like this... lol now i have to wait to ge to the advanced forums.. a quick question for you Shrub, i dont have a high security one its was only 7 bucks and generic, do i still need the high security high cost picks to pick it, i am just interested as it is going to be going on my shed and i am not going to pick it but just to know because i can buy another becuase there so cheep. thanks buddy.
Andy
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by Clipper » 16 Apr 2006 17:36
Hi
Thanks for the information, it was very helpful, however, i'm having trouble picking this one wafer lock and i can't identify the problem.
After setting all the wafers I was able to turn the cylinder as usual but after turning it one full revolution the wafers set again and the lock did'nt open, i then set the wafers again and turned the cylinder, in the same direction, in another full revolution thinking that it needed to be turned further, and again the wafers set but the lock still did'nt open and i attempted this both clockwise and anticlockwise. I also tried opening the door when the cylinder was turned half way but no luck.
There was also a spring type mechanism at the back of the cylinder which i kept catching the pick on and if I pushed it, it was difficult to pull the pick back out.
Why would this lock not open?....any ideas
Thanks.
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Clipper
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by maxxed » 17 Apr 2006 1:19
Post a pic, that will help us id the lock.
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maxxed
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by Clipper » 17 Apr 2006 4:58
I'm can't get a picture of the actual lock, but here's something similar. It's definitely a thumbturn and it's Yale. Hope this helps. 
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Clipper
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by quicklocks » 17 Apr 2006 8:28
pick the lock turn the barrel just a very small amount, then take out your tenson wrench and insert it so the long bit hits the springy thing in the back of the lock, push it back and now turn the whole lot it should now pick up the cam and open the lock. 
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quicklocks
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by Clipper » 17 Apr 2006 10:23
Thanks quicklock, do you know what shape the springy thing at the back is, it would help to know so I can visualize it.
Also, are the long handle sides of tention wrentch's strong enough to turn the cam, the thing is I'm using the southord slimset picks, made of spring steel and they tend to bend a bit. Is there a particular type of tention wrench you would reccomend or do you think these will do the trick if I use alot of tention, I don't want to break anything.
cheers
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Clipper
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by Shrub » 17 Apr 2006 10:29
Clipper, thats not a wafer lock its a pin tumbler lock and has pins not wafers, have a look around here on picking a euro lock, for pics of the internals look around for the repining guide sj made while back.
Locknewbie, yes a disc lock will be more secure against picking than most other locks, the hardware the discs are in may be an issue if it was very cheap it may be more subceptable to an attack on the phisical side as in breaking it than a heavy duty normal pin tumbler padlock would be.
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Shrub
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by LockNewbie21 » 17 Apr 2006 23:07
Thanks a bunch shrub, yea unbelievebly this lock is hardcore for the price i will have to post a pic, but as far as picking.. is there any generic tools out there, or is the abus decoder one used in the demo on here some where the only option. I dont have the money for the pick so if there isnt a cheeper pick avaible i am gong to go by another and make a cut away of the one i have now thanks buddy
Andy
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by Shrub » 18 Apr 2006 7:10
Well you will have to make a tool, you cant buy anything that would adequately pick it reliably but i guess you could play around with 2 or 3 wires to pick it, its not somthing easily done without a tool that has been made for the job, it doesnt have to be the same as the decoder you have seen and can be simular to the cheaper Tibbe lock picks found on some of the locksmith sites but either way a lathe and machineing skills are required along with a good knowledge of the lock.
I would give it up until your in the advanced section and for now use it to lock your shed up.
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Shrub
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