Should Locksmiths be Licenced with the SIA?

by **RobinWilliamson** » 26 Apr 2006 17:18

Should Locksmiths be Licenced with the SIA? would this assist our quest to give the industry a good name and remove the cow boys
If you are unawares with the SIA there licence is law for the following.
1, Security
2, Door supervision
3, Cash and valubls in transit
4,Public space surveillance CCTV
5,Close protection
6,Key holding
www.the-sia.org.uk

by **Shrub** » 26 Apr 2006 19:03

I think we need a separate governing body that actually understands the NDE point of view as well as all the other things, a generic body that deals with everything else isnt going to help and i suspect it will be the same like door staff where anyone who says they stand at a door more or less automatically gets the license.

by **Raccoon** » 27 Apr 2006 2:30

So, start one.

The majority of US governing bodies were once volunteer organizations that the government absorbed. I'm sure if you all formed a certifying body, people would take notice and your rules may become official doctrine.

by **vector40** » 27 Apr 2006 2:59

Raccoon wrote:The majority of US governing bodies were once volunteer organizations that the government absorbed.

Hmm. I'd like to know more about this. Can you point me at a source?

by **Shrub** » 27 Apr 2006 9:33

Things like that are a lot easier said then done, we need goverment backing to do such a venture and to get that is neigh on impossable, sure if someone with a lot of weight in the industry and a lot of money they are willing to write off a private club could be started but it wont change a single thing.

The OP's idea is a valid one and the best present solution but for me its not quite right for the present industry as all the cowboys would also be let in.

There needs to be a testing program as well as a licensing program or else its just not worth it and as i say it needs to be goverment supported with penalties in place for those that either trade without the license or for those that fallout of the guidelines of said license regulations.

At present the best i think we can do is push the cowboys out of business by a) not subbing to them and b) showing them up at every possable chance to the public, but thats also easier said then done when theres multi million pound advertiseing campains out there.
Starting private clubs and crying about it in the trade circles doesnt do anything, the public dont know the differance although they are admittadly begining to learn but its a slow process.
The trainng of vast numbers of new lockies is the majour downfall in this country, it would be a lot better if these were trained right but they arent, we are reaching saturation point in the uk with locksmithing out numbering other trades where as it used to be a select small community.

Now business groath is all fine and well but its the same as untrained motor mechanics being put out there or untrained plumbers, builders, electricials etc etc its the decent honest people who are going to suffer, the tradesmen for loosing their business and the public for looseing quality service.

Weve gone over this so many times in so many threads, theres places like the MLA but unless goverment backing is achieved and non members are stopped from tradeing then its always going to be just somthing to talk about, the training schools need closeing down unless certain standards are achieved and a price cap put on things like lock prices on call outs etc before any differances will be noticed.

I dont HAVE to be a member of anywhere to trade as a lockie, im the only one in my immediate area so whatever i tell my customers as far as they are concerned is true, lucky for them my prices are low and i do not drill locks but i could just as easy be the same as someone like reactfast but without anything the customer can ask to see as in an official accreditation for example how are they to know any differant whether im god or bad.

You cant change the world in a day and it always amuses me that the US side of the world seem to beleive you can, the best we can do is to keep annoying the MP's, writing to the local papers, national papers, tv, radio, fight the corner of NDE locksmithing and push out the cowboys and bring in a goverment backed licensing law, unfortunaly unless its the goverments idea a suggestion from a trades group seems to take forever.

by **RobinWilliamson** » 27 Apr 2006 15:35

Although I apreciate your long explanation on what are the pifalls, how not to, don't give in to the large traders, NDE is the way forward etc etc.
Surley the way to stop confusing the public is to have one organisation.
You will never stop the cowboys that is just plain fact.
Corgi registerd plumbers should be a good sign that they are genuine but my one and only visit from a plumber he was corgi registerd and started messing with my boiler for no reason just to lengthn the time and get more cash.

How many good Locksmith organisations are there 1? 2? 3? 4? 5? 6?
MLA the leaders in the pack I feel

any more than 1 just confuses the public, if you were to do a poll, more often than not people will answer MLA but they don't practice pure NDE, so which is better?

I'm not trying to argue which is better NDE or not, but the more people who make up there own little group and say this is better than the other etc etc it does more damage than good.

Your right you can't change the world in a day but a begining has to start somewhere, and what better place than here?
There seems to be a few larger players here and a few dedicated not so larger ones, an amalgimation of such is the key bin the little groups and gangs and start a universal one that people can aspire to.

There's plenty of people asking "who's the better trainer" why is a cse 2 days when others a 3 and some are 4. Set a standard cse length a standard test there is no "industry standard" so lets make one.

If anyone is mildly interested in my idea please let me know, it doesn't cost any more than a few mins of your time

Regards

Rob

by **rich999** » 27 Apr 2006 16:09

Hi Rob

I am shortly to commence a locksmith training course, with a reputable trainer/company. I for one would welcome some form of regulation for this industry...after all people trust lockies with their security, etc.

As you rightly say there are numerous associations, with MLA leading the way. These associations are there to set standards amongst their members and offer some form of redress for the consumer...but there is no legal requirement to join these.

In principle licensing with a body such as the SIA would be a good thing, however, there are pitfalls!! Cost implications, management of registration, etc. The SIA system for licensing other so called 'security professionals' has not gone without error to date. However, it should make it a necessity for all locksmiths to be CRB checked at least...surely a good thing!!

It needs to be done for the right reasons and in the right way...not just so that the regulatory body can make a quick buck!!

There would need to be a committee or the like which includes professional locksmiths, etc. Because how can we expect to be policed correctly by those in suits who do not know anything else about locks, other than you put a key in them!!!

Regulation would not get rid of the cowboys totally, but it may help to reduce their numbers...this could only be a good thing!

Regards, Rich

by **bonez** » 27 Apr 2006 16:13

robin post up the application form!

i'm sure if it's free of charge we'll all sign up!

i watch with interest!

:wink:

by **RobinWilliamson** » 27 Apr 2006 16:49

Ok thanks for the replys so far, Iam by no means in a position to decide on who and who doesn't qualify for such a "Organisation ".

It would only work if other "Organisations " ceased or at least amalgimated to form one.

What i'm offering is to do the leg work, even though i am a "Lockie" and frown at cowboys and otrher multi nationals, I will never be a pure NDE thats not the direction my buisness is going, 2am call out to let joe bloggs back in their house is not what i'm all about, i've learnt and practice the skill to enable me to understand locks and security better, yes I can open any rim and most mortice locks now but not in the same league as Pinky Domonic and Dave. I have a drill and do use it but the largist hole I make will only be ONE 8mm, and you can never see the damage after, and the lock is replaced for free.

As we know anyone can start a society for locksmiths or whatever but they will only ever mean something to the members and the people they work with. There needs to be a national site, national data base, national advertising and national standards (for standards I will be aproaching the big guys)
If all the genuine people add some time and effort then it can go along way to atleast stopping those "learn in two days teach for Â£1000 a week clowns"

I'm going to keep pestering people utill they sit up and take notice, this can only leed to good things,

Please email me and register your serious interest, "rome wasn't built in a day" but someone laid the first brick.

Rob

by **gareth** » 11 Jul 2006 6:12

Just a quick one lads. I left the CP industry last April, the SIA has now accredited itself in the industry. It's used as a sort of benchmark, sort of like the MLA and a few other official sounding enterprises. The SIA is a bad joke screwing up the job mkt and the boys are paying through the nose for it.
The locksmith industry needs some sort of command and control BUT the SIA is not the way ahead as they are an absolute cluster f**k and are only doing it to make s**t loads of money for absolutely nothing.
This is not the road to go down,believe me!