Bogota, Falle-Safe Superior?

by **jimb** » 27 Apr 2006 8:55

I often read posts here where members claim that these picks are superior to others. Some claim they can open locks with these that they could not open with other brands of picks. I do not doubt these claims, but I would like to know why or what makes them superior? What characteristics do these picks have that makes them better?

by **Shrub** » 27 Apr 2006 9:03

Personally i think a lot of it is in the mind set, if someone believes they can definatley do somthing with a certain tool then it suddenly more achieveable.

Thats not the only thing of course, the finish, style, size etc are all factors that contribute.

I believe in what i can do not what the tool can do, for work i use a South Ord set and open everything with them, ive got a Falle set and even after de-burring them (they were far worse than the SO sets) i still dont get on with them yet, i admit ive not had the practice with them but i will reach for the SO set on a job before the Falles.

What im trying to say is that people with a Ferrari think they have the fastest car on the road but a suped up Impreza will leave them standing at the lights.

by **Hardliner** » 27 Apr 2006 15:24

The thing with the Bogotas is the handle shape... I can't rake very well with a traditional straight-handled rake (I have one that has a very similar profile to the bogota even), but using the pistol grip style bogota rake lets me jiggle the tool around lot more effectively, using the "too much coffee" jittery type motion. Trying this with a straight-handled tool results in some awkward wrist contortions. Locks that don't open with the traditional rake, open fine with the Bogota. To me however, the avantages of the pistol grip do not extend to the bogota hook/diamond. I've never opened a lock with that tool unless I just gripped the shaft and used it like a straight pick, sort of defeating the whole purpose.

Personal preference, experience and how well the chosen tool fits in with an individual's picking style is more important that what the tool is. I've opened more locks with my trusty homemade short hook than any purchased pick.

by **Olcaytug** » 27 Apr 2006 18:19

jimb wrote:I often read posts here where members claim that these picks are superior to others. Some claim they can open locks with these that they could not open with other brands of picks. I do not doubt these claims, but I would like to know why or what makes them superior? What characteristics do these picks have that makes them better?

Ordinary snakes can not overcome most key combinations, since they do not have enough depths/cut angles. Most possibly even a wide range of different snakes would be useless if you can not open a lock with an ordinary snake. It is mostly the angle of cuts on the snake that make a lock pickable.

With bogatas you can reach even the deepest set pins, and when you use the jiggling motion, you do not need to move the bogota in and out of the lock (otherwise it would be difficult with the long teeth of bogotas & you would false set some pins). Thats why a bogata rake can pick any combination!

On the other hand since pick movements are rapid, when you apply a variable the torque, security pins can be pushed up the shearline in the short time intervals of nearly no torque.

Also I realize that having a few bogotas with different cut angles & teeth distances may help you with different brand locks. (use round files of 1/4", 5/16", 3/16", etc for cutting the picks. But I assume the one that is best for most locks is 1/4")

by **pinsetter** » 28 Apr 2006 20:28

I made a bogota style pick the best I could from pictures and drawings. Mine is long with a straight wood handle but I think the blade is pretty accurate.
Anyway, the thing is amazing really. I compensate for the handle by standing over it and using an underhand grip. Just put it in the lock, give a few good quick circular motions, (rocking pick up and down and rapidly moving it in and out of the keyway a very short distance at the same time), while bouncing light tension, and POP! It defeats both my Kwikset door knobs in 3-5 seconds consistently, and makes short work of many of my padlocks.
I can't speak for the Falle Safe, but the Bogota design is excellent. I have had a VERY high success rate with it.

Is raimundo responsible for that design? If so, hat's off to you on an excellent tool! And does it sound to you like I'm applying the technique they were designed to use?

by **Shrub** » 28 Apr 2006 20:33

If you have a look around the site you will find details on a pdf of a how to make the bogotas and use them.

by **pinsetter** » 28 Apr 2006 22:06

I think I made my pick from a thing called "Raimundo's Bogota How To Guide" or something like that. I indeed found the information by looking around here and I think I'm using the technique described, but am not real sure, but it's opening locks so it at least must be close. :wink:

by **Hardliner** » 28 Apr 2006 23:33

I too read the PDF how-to guide on this site and learned not only how to make the Bogotas but the filing and sanding techniques described therein carry over to any other picking tools that one might wish to design and make as well.

Also, definitely search for any and all of raimundo's posts on the subject of his picks, their manufacture and use. They contain nuggets of golden information for anyone interested in the ways of the Bogotas!

by **vector40** » 29 Apr 2006 4:48

Comparisons like this are always silly.

Bogotas are exactly right for me because all I do is rake. Falle-Safes would be barely usable.

by **p1ckf1sh** » 29 Apr 2006 6:11

pinsetter wrote:Is raimundo responsible for that design? If so, hat's off to you on an excellent tool! And does it sound to you like I'm applying the technique they were designed to use?

1. Yes, 2. ACK, 3. Yes.

by **raimundo** » 3 May 2006 9:49

vector was single pin picking until I got a hold of him :twisted:

by **vector40** » 3 May 2006 14:59

Liez.

by **devildog** » 3 May 2006 17:50

I think this is like comparing apples and oranges, and I suspect that the OP has just read about these picks called 'bogotas' and these other picks called 'falle safes' and thinks they're similar and comparable (no offense to the OP if I got this wrong, but this really doesn't make sense)--they're not even close! Bogotas are two little picks, cost about 20 bucks, and are used almost exclusively for raking. Falle-Safes are a 50-some-odd piece set, run about $275, and are an entire pickset designed for a professional to be able to open any standard pin-tumbler in existence.

Bogotas are among the best rakes in existence (I was suprised to note, BTW, that the Falle rakes are VERY effective as well) but they're not universally effective, and in that sense they're just like every other rake in existence--they'll open MOST locks MOST of the time (more than just about any other rake), but not all, so they're not consistent enough to be depended upon to open EVERY lock you run into. I have standard 5 pin Schlages I can't open with the bogotas (these are typically the same ones I can't bump either) simply because of the way they're pinned.

by **devildog** » 3 May 2006 18:05

Oh, and BTW, the only picks I ever carry are the small Bogotas, because the odds that I'll not only need to pick a lock while I'm out but that it'll also be one that's of high enough quality (Sargent, Russwin, Best, Medeco Keymark, American) that the bogotas probably couldn't handle it are so slim that it's not worth the trouble to carry anything more complicated.

by **vector40** » 3 May 2006 18:49

A good way to expand the Bogota set is to get serious about using the diamond for single-pin lifting. Or throw one of ray's hooks in there.

Bogota, Falle-Safe Superior?

Bogota, Falle-Safe Superior?

Re: Bogota, Falle-Safe Superior?

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