magnetic pins

[Shrub]

Yes a glass relocker on a mortice or pin tumbler would be good but the manufactureing process needed and the extra R+D etc puts most commercial firms off doing somthing unless forced to.

Electronics is the way they are going, its cheap but effective, you can still pick the locks but it wont open.

[illusion]

Electronics is the way they are going, its cheap but effective, you can still pick the locks but it wont open.

Yeah.. the CLIQ technology is impressive.

[kelly]

Ha. That's a neat idea. I could picture the class pins breaking though under normal use just taking the key in and out a few times.
It would also solve quite a few picking problems. If a pin starts binding, it's probably going to break. Course, if they all break, it just opens.

Could you imagine total lockdown it the core were struck? Teen jackasses would be going around town just punching peoples locks with no intent to get in. lol. An entire town lockout. A clever locksmith could earn quite a living!

I know there are quite a few high quality locks that can not be bumped. What measures have they used to prevent the bumping? I did read about a passive undercut in the keyway which engages when the right key is in. It seems that key would be hard to have made if you didn't have permission. That's good. Is there anything else?
Ehwell, homework and chicken fingers.

[datagram]

For normal pin tumblers:

Shadow drilling: Drilling the chamber bottoms to higher depths, so that the bumpkey will pass under these pins and not pop the driver pins up. This should be different from lock to lock (as it doesn't affect keys), because bumpkeys can be made if the drilling depths are all known, if I am not mistaken.

Sidebars: A second row of pins that manipulates a literal bar. This only defeats bumping in scenarios where the bumpkey does not have the same sidebar cut as the lock (which is why its a problem with some locks, such as the ASSA v-10)

Trap Pins: Uber high tension springs pushing down on secondary pin stacks on the sides of the core, so that when picked or bumped these fall into the cylinder and jam it. This doesnt happen normally because with a key the key pins are held in place (they don't drop back down). The problem with trap pins being that the only option is to drill the lock out once they jam the plug...

For dimple locks:

Pin-in-pin stacks: Bottom pins have inner pins, so the pin must essentially be lowered and lifted at the same time to accomodate both of these pins to the shear line.

[vector40]

Shooting even an ordinary key into a lock will often kick the pins apart.

[Shrub]

Pin in pin stacks need to have a certain design to them, things like the MTL interactive bumps quite easily.

[lockedin]

This was brought out way back in the mid 70's and early eighties when bumping was the fad back then.

Man, if that is true it is a chilling testament to the lack of speed at which news makes it to the general public. I know rapping and the use of pick guns (and the physics behind them) have been known forever, but I thought bumping per se had more recent origins.

[Omikron]

For dimple locks:

Pin-in-pin stacks: Bottom pins have inner pins, so the pin must essentially be lowered and lifted at the same time to accomodate both of these pins to the shear line.

This is not an effective measure against bumping. A properly cut bumpkey can still be used to manipulate the lock cylinder.

[p1ckf1sh]

This was brought out way back in the mid 70's and early eighties when bumping was the fad back then.

Man, if that is true it is a chilling testament to the lack of speed at which news makes it to the general public. I know rapping and the use of pick guns (and the physics behind them) have been known forever, but I thought bumping per se had more recent origins.

I seem to faintly remember Barry stating that bumping has been documented even as far back as the end of WW2. It was in the bumping revisited video. But my memory is shady at times, can anyone verify this? I deleted the file after viewing...

[Prodigy]

Well when you think about it what else could they (manuf) do really.

Well theres lots of things .

Yeh sure that is corrrect you can see already with the amount of people on this forum you will get as many ideas. But truthfully the tooling for all of this is way to expensive for them to introduce the changes.

Of cource bad guys would also be using the bumping method to get entry, why the hell not they will and use anything they can. there is plenty of information and imagery just on this forum to arm any person good or bad with the go to anything.

The internet has just been a wider medium for the information to reach everyone.

[datagram]

For dimple locks:

Pin-in-pin stacks: Bottom pins have inner pins, so the pin must essentially be lowered and lifted at the same time to accomodate both of these pins to the shear line.

This is not an effective measure against bumping. A properly cut bumpkey can still be used to manipulate the lock cylinder.

Oh interesting, how do you cut the key?

[ninopolis]

Im kinda new to lockpicking...
But as I read this thread an idea popped up in my head.
So:
Generally pins are pushed up by a key to the shear line, we can all agree on that. Duh'
Now what if 1 of the pins was above the shear line and it was magnetised, and the only way to get it down was by having a magnetic key?
Would this completely eliminate our current style of lockpicking?


-Nemo
P.s. Wow that post came out wrong... I hope you get it, sorta

[iNtago]

Now what if 1 of the pins was above the shear line and it was magnetised, and the only way to get it down was by having a magnetic key?

if a pin is above the shear line thare will be nothing stoping the plug from turning or is there ...dum dum dum

Would this completely eliminate our current style of lockpicking

if someone made this work all you would need is a magnetic pick

(if you havent realised yet i have no idea what im talking about and im just trying to sound smart)

[TheonlyQ]

Isn't just introducing a relocker the best solution to this type of defeat?

Yeah it would take some redesign but if this becomes a major problem that all the 'cons' carry a bumpkey (in the future) then redesign will need to be done.

I notice with some of the newer electomechanical locks they have possible fail-open setting so generating a fail condition and bingo.. so even they have problems, allbeit different ones.


Until then I guess the lock companys will not be too quick to spend $ on the problem.

What with the info on making masterkeys for most (masterkeyd) systems (including the expensive ones) using only a change key it all seems like locks are a bit easy to defeat if you have the determination... or if you can read and have at least one hand!

Just a thought, and probably a dumb one

Q

[darrel.h]

I remember starting a tread about magnets that defeated pickguns and anything that relied on that principle.