How many times can lock be picked w/o damage?

[mickeydtx]

Will picking a lock multiple times damage a lock? How can you tell?

[Shrub]

It depends on what sort of picking and how roughly you do it.

If all you do is heavy raking then yes it will get damaged and this can be seen by brass filings coming out the keyway and a brass tait apearing on your rake,

If you single pin pick gentally with a hook pick then you wont notice much differance in a normal look at the keyway apart from a few extra scratches here and there.

The easiest way to tell is that the lock will feel gritty when opened with the key or the key will no longer work at all.

[Mr. Lock Pick]

well you will see some damage to it, you'll see scratches, but you cant really break a lock without breaking your pick first

[WhiteHat]

LSS has a lot of excelent information and pictures about this. basically, the wear from normal use always causes scratches in the same direction (horizontal) due to the key going in and out.

when taking apart a lock for forenzic investication it's obvious from even one picking attempt that there are scratches there that are not associated with normal use.

the pick scratches will be random and more up and down, there will also be scratches on the actual pins that are not normal.

now the thing is. they still have a hard time proving that the picking attempt was successful and resulted in entry. it could have occured a long time prior to the investigation. if the lock hasn't been used since the picking attempt, there could also be shavings on the bottom of the keyway etc.

as for damaging it beyond repair - it does depend on how rough you are with it. I remember seeing a medeco that Barry Wels had picked multiple times and taken appart and it was absolutely shot. the pins were so worn I would have been suprised if the key still worked. I guess because of the nature of medeco you need a bit more force with your pick to turn the pins.

[serpih]

the bumping could damage the lock, but usually no, first bumpkey will not work, but key will work
the pick gun maybe
the picks i dont think so

pass see my perso web site i put somme videos

search in section crochets , pick gun and bumpkey

bye
sorry about my english

http://cruz.sergio.club.fr

[quicklocks]

some lever locks will only respond well a couple of times to picking and others loads of times the chubb 114 & 3k74 espesialy the 3k74 are tempermental due to the anti pick on the stump becoming deformed if to much pressure is used.
this is what ive found anyway

[NKT]

I find the 114 requires very low amounts of force, mate. If you are bending things, that's way too much!

Scratches and things on the lever locks will rarely cause issues, but will make it obvious that the lock has been picked in the past. Rate of oxidisation of the scratches will give a very rough guide to when, same as the other types of locks.

[Mollywirebandit]

Nice .sig <Whitehat>

0100000101101101001000000100100100100000011100
100110100101100111011010000111010000111111

For my two cent -thats euro, not U.S.- I have a training lock I regularly rake pretty harshly and have done so for a year or more and the key still works smoothly, I would have thought a badly copied or burred key would cause more damage per opening than picking would...

[quicklocks]

I find the 114 requires very low amounts of force, mate. If you are bending things, that's way too much!

Scratches and things on the lever locks will rarely cause issues, but will make it obvious that the lock has been picked in the past. Rate of oxidisation of the scratches will give a very rough guide to when, same as the other types of locks.

yes i know, i use very light pressure but seeing other people picking many have a tendancy to over tension the locks causing this type of damage

[Legion303]

I have a Brinks re-pinnable padlock (KW1, still haven't found the Schlage version around here) and that's exactly what happened--brass all over my half diamond rake, dust flying out of the keyway...I assumed it was graphite at first, but brass from the pins makes more sense in light of the timing. Fortunately I was able to scrub it open one more time and change the pins. Now I'm doing what I should have done in the first place, which is gentle single-pin picking.

-steve

[raimundo]

Drag your thumbnail on the working edge of your pick, what you feel is the problem, sand that pick til it feels like glass, and it will saw considerably less material out of the the pins and wards. Rough sanding heavyer grit, go accross the top of the pick, fine finishing, go along the length of the pickshaft and do the pick tips also, it should all be smooth where youdon't intend to use it as a file.

[Legion303]

Ah, good idea. I did it with my homemade picks, but I never even thought to polish up the manufactured ones. Thanks for the tip.

-steve

[cracksman]

I've found that most of the wear has been on the sides of the pins because of the torque of the wrench, I don't use lube or graphite, but I have yet to have a lock damaged from single pin picking. At worst the pins may become a bit looser over time. Raking inevitably will cause damage although scrubbing is much like the action of inserting a key, so I imagine the wear would be minimal.

I have done a bit of reading on forensics in this area and have never saw pictures or heard anyone talk of examining the sides of the top pins for wear, or security pins such as spools for false sets (maybe little nicks would show up on false sets?)

I wonder if a graphite pick, or some material like Petersons blue handles would be soft enough to prevent scrathing the tops of the pins? The picks would have a short life, the debris from their wear would have to be sucked out I would imagine, but I wonder if a small amount of residue from the pick would raise any attention from forensics? Maybe someone can write to CSI (a US crime show) and find out

[p1ckf1sh]

I have done a bit of reading on forensics in this area and have never saw pictures or heard anyone talk of examining the sides of the top pins for wear, or security pins such as spools for false sets (maybe little nicks would show up on false sets?)

I wonder if a graphite pick, or some material like Petersons blue handles would be soft enough to prevent scrathing the tops of the pins? The picks would have a short life, the debris from their wear would have to be sucked out I would imagine, but I wonder if a small amount of residue from the pick would raise any attention from forensics? Maybe someone can write to CSI (a US crime show) and find out

"Every contact leaves a trace" - Quote from yesterdays CSI Miami episode.

The thing is, as far as I can recollect, that brass on brass friction won't cause too much wear or even burrs or striations. All the parts that rub against each other in the chambers are rounded. And brass on brass will more like polish each other, not result in abrasion. If you insert a pointed pick made of steel or something harder than brass, this thing will absolutely positively scratch the pin surfaces. Certainly on top, and if the warding permits slipping off with your pick the sides of the pin might also get a hit.

You certainly might be able to cover up the pick tips with something, but ot has to be soft. If it is soft you have to make the coating pretty thick to make sure it does not wear out through your picking session. And this thickness will probably prevent proper tool movement and picking success.

I know that the people of SSDeV (german locksports group) work hand-in-hand with forensics people, at least with the investigators in Berlin. They open the locks in by different means, the forensics people go and find out what they have left as a trace.

Here on this page (http://www.goeth.de/schloesser.html) are some pics showing the striations on top pins. They would not have occured with a regular key...