Euro profile cylinders

[london_lad]

All

I am a new locksmith, only 3 months in. I have a lot of success picking euro pfofile cylinders but with some of them I can pick it and use the plug spinner to turn lock but the lock dosn't open. I have heard you have to put an old pick in the centre of the key way and push it in as far as possible and then turn the lock and it will open. I have tried this but without any luck and hope someone could give me some hints which could help me out

Thanks

[EvoRed]

You push a pick to the back of the lock on thumbturns only to engage the cam as it's sprung for the thumbturn side to have control unless pushed in from the key side. In this case you turn the plug whilst pushing at the back of it.

If the plug's stopping at 180 degrees then it's the driver pins getting stuck in the top of the keyway and these pins need pushing down, with the back of a pick, to enable the plug to turn further.

[panalman]

[quote="london_lad"]All

I am a new locksmith, only 3 months in. I have a lot of success picking euro pfofile cylinders but with some of them I can pick it and use the plug spinner to turn lock but the lock dosn't open. I have heard you have to put an old pick in the centre of the key way and push it in as far as possible and then turn the lock and it will open. I have tried this but without any luck and hope someone could give me some hints which could help me out
Hi London Lad.
What make of euro cylinder are you getting stuck with? or are there more than one I have found that MILA are prone to this. But as EvoRed has already pointed out will solve the problem. Good luck

[london_lad]

Thanks for the replies

panalman, haven't really looked to see what make cylinders i'm getting this problem with, guess I should really.

EvoRed, the cylinder dosn'nt stop at 180 degrees it just keeps spinning round constantly and does not open. Do you mean you only put a pick in the centre of key way if its got a thumb turn ?

[EvoRed]

Sounds like a thumbturn then. Put a pick to the back of the keyway and you will feel it spring. You have to push this spring in and turn at the same time to operate the cam. If you don't the plug will turn all day long but the cam won't move as the thumbturn side has usual control of the cam. This can be awkward on some cylinders.

[toomush2drink]

I picked a zone euro recently that would not pick up the cam whatever i did so had to gain entry another way, very fustrating when you know youve picked it.

[pinky]

try either cut down keys, or shape some tools from piano wire, thats what i now use having been in same position once on a warrant, never again

[RobinWilliamson]

concur with pinky i've ben using a a selection of keys filed right down works for me.

regards

Rob

[Shrub]

Once picked you can turn the keyway round a few degrees then insert a cut down key, this will engage the cam and then on turning it the lock should open.

[illusion]

Once picked you can turn the keyway round a few degrees then insert a cut down key, this will engage the cam and then on turning it the lock should open.

Yeah... it stops the top pins sinking into the opposite side of the keyway also.

[london_lad]

Thanks for all the help.

I picked a cylinder today and again it was just spinning. I put a pick in centre of key way and turned and hey presto, it opened

The cut down keys seems a good idea. As I said before im new to all this and was wondering if someone could explain how to cut a key down to help open the lock.

Thanks again.

[Shrub]

The part that usually have the cuts in cut off compleatly leaving a thin key, if you know the max depth of cut you can make it a little deeper than that and keep the key as full a possable.

Its like a 999 key but with out the peaks in between.

[p1ckf1sh]

I have read some references to thumbturns here. But isn't it like you always have to actuate the coupling after picking a eurocylinder? At least the models which are sold nowadays almost all have what is called "Not- und Gefahrenfunktion" here in Germany, roughly translated as emergency function. This means that the lock can still by unlocked even if a key is inserted and even twisted halfways from the other side of the lock.

On one old Abus pin tumbler lock I had, picking one side would automatically turn the cam, picking the other side would require pickup. But this cylinder was without the emergency function, so if I had the key in on one side, the other side would not budge.

So I think with these cylinders you always have to pick up the coupling or am I wrong? My understanding of how the coupling works on these things is still a bit hazy, and the only reference model I have would be my apartments cylinder. I have to admit that after repinning and disassembling all the locks I could not resist to have an inside look on it, but I found it had completely closed rings, which have to be cut/drilled to open it. I would have thrown the "Don't screw with locks you rely on" overboard, but I could not get myself to take a power drill to a lock I rely on...

[Al]

Standard Euro double cylinders are 'either/or' so you can only fully insert a key if there is nothing the other side. Some 'either/and' locks are available from certain manufacturers, whereby a key can be inserted into one of the sides if a key is already in the other. They do not work the other way around.
Thumbturn cylinders only have one keyway and a thumbturn the other side, the key 'actuates' the coupling every time.

[bjornnrojb]

This thread saved me today! I responded to a lockout on a cruiseliner in Seattle today and picked the profile cylinder and spun it both ways three times. Found this thread and tried sticking a diamond pick into the springy thing in the back of the keyway but was unable to retract the bolt. Then I stuck a bumpkey in and turned it and presto! Of course this wouldn't have worked if any of the cuts were 7 or above because the bumpkey wouldn't have cleared pins that long whenit was already picked.
When trying to manipulate the back of the keyway with the diamond pick it felt like something went awry and the plug became very difficult to spin. I thought at first this was a good sign until the bolt didn't move. Not sure if I pushed a spring loaded object sideways back there or what, but it righted itself after being spun 360 degrees.
Then I discovered the profile cylinder didn't have top loading chambers, requiring a sectioned magnetic follower! Nightmare after nightmare.