Pick legality issues resolved

[LockNewbie21]

Okay so i have read many people asking if its illegal to have picks and such and so on. I stopped to pick up my pack of smoke like always, and this police officer who my family knows well and is actually helping me to get accepted to a police academy this fall, but anyway i figured if i wanted an honest answere i could trust him, so i told him that i belong on here and that this question keeps popping up. He said what everone wants to here NO! he said its not illegal inless you use them wrong..pretty much like a gun knife hammer boot crowbar thermite ect., he said jurisdictions may vary, but he said cops are used to dealing with guns drugs and knives, I showed him my set that i carry in my car he siad in all honestly if i was caught with say a broken key extractor most police would consider it a shank or object for stabbing, his meaning was Police rarely come across someone with lock picks or using them in a bad way so they would first be considered wepons due to there shank apperence. But theres you answere, as i said this was from a police officer in Pennsyvainia, but i would imagine it to be the same anywhere. Hoped i helped some guys in here from Pa. But i thought that a non biased opinion would be good to post in here.

Andy

[nezumi]

Just so you know:

1) That law varies from state to state. I believe Pennsylvania is listed in the Legality thread as matching what you've said, but for the rest of us, his opinion really means nothing (because we're in different locales).

2) Police officers, in my experience, know remarkably little about the law. Barring the most basic things ("Is it legal for me to point a handgun at someone else?") I have as of yet to meet a cop who knows even the smallest intricacies of the law they uphold. I know more about traffic law than most any other officer I've talked with (and I've talked with a few). If your friend were a lawyer or a judge, I'd give that from credence, but a cop is only speaking from what he thinks he is supposed to do, his training, which does not necessarily cover little details like what makes a 'robbery tool' legal or illegal. His job would simply be to pull you in for whatever it is, confiscate it and denote it somewhere so the lawyers can sort it out.

[illusion]

It's ironic is it not Nezumi?

[LockNewbie21]

Well i was as stated pertaining to people in Pa., And i also wouldnt under estimate police there alot smarter than you think, i just wanted an opion and htats what i got.

Andy

[Sumguy21]

Will someone here help me? Says this about my state in the legality thread.

In line 2 of the printed bill, after 'detection' insert ';
amending ORS 164.225, 164.235 and section 19, chapter 666, Oregon
Laws 2001'. Delete lines 4 through 22 and insert:

SECTION 1. ORS 164.235 is amended to read:
(1) A person commits the crime of possession of burglar's tools if the person possesses any burglar tool with the intent to use the tool or knowing that some person intends to use the tool to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or theft by a physical taking - ... a burglary tool or theft device if the person possesses a burglary tool or theft device and the person:

(a) Intends to use the tool or device to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or a theft by a physical taking; or

(b) Knows that another person intends to use the tool or device to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or a theft by a physical taking.

(2) Burglar tool ... For purposes of this section, ' burglary tool or theft device' ... means an acetylene torch, electric arc, burning bar, thermal lance, oxygen lance or other similar device capable of burning through steel, concrete or other solid material, or nitroglycerine, dynamite, gunpowder or any other explosive, tool, instrument or other article adapted or designed for committing or facilitating a forcible entry into
premises or theft by a physical taking.

(3) Possession of burglar's tools ... a burglary tool or theft device is a Class A misdemeanor.

SECTION 2 ORS 164.225 is amended to read:
(1) A person commits the crime of burglary in the first degree if the person violates ORS 164.215 and the building is a dwelling, or if in effecting entry or while in a building or in immediate flight therefrom the person:

(a) Is armed with a burglar's tool (burglary tool or theft device) as defined in ORS 164.235 or a deadly weapon; or

(b) Causes or attempts to cause physical injury to any
person; or

(c) Uses or threatens to use a dangerous weapon.

(2) Burglary in the first degree is a Class A felony.

I'm assuming this means that is is legal to have a lockpick and use lockpicks at home, right?

[LockNewbie21]

Possesion "with intent to use" you can have them carry them do w/e except pick things that don't belong to you, be mindful laws are written vaugley to be able to be pushed to the prosecutions side, but your okay to carry them.



Andy

[kepiblanc]

If one could ostensibly use this forum for learning how to fashion lock pick tools from steak knife blades and allen wrenches, in the privacy of his own home, for usage strictly at home, then whatever laws against him possessing lock picks that may exist would be practically unenforceable anyway, right?

[Krypos]

for all it matters to the police, i could be doing any harmless to the outside world act (for instance...uhhh....something illegal, but that wouldnt alert the outside world...i dunno)

oooh- crack. if i stayed inside my whole life and just smoked crack, it would be a long time befor ei was busted- why? because no one outside knows i do it. so i could be a crackhead til i die of overdose and people wouldnt know.


NOTE! I AM NOT REALLY A CRACKHEAD, THAT WAS JUST AN EXAMPLE.

[LockNewbie21]

Well if your picking your parents safe and the call the cops

But no its okay.

I am feeling sh*itty, and can;t sleep so i will right a sum up answereing all the questions and some that weren;t asked you might not have thought of.. so please READ ALL CAREFULLY AND FULLY!

Okay, Washinton DC is the only place i know its illegal to carry and lockpicking instrument at all without a liscence or its afelony.

Any where else, please add if its illegal wher eyou are, IS called possesion (in small letter's) WITH INTENT TO USE(Big and out there letters)
Is only what there interested in, a cop could care less who has lockpicks, but its who is misusing them, Pointblank answere, picking a lock you don;t own.

This is indeed a felony for breaking and entering, but having lockpicks involved in a break in or theft, like a gun for instance will elivate the charge to unbelievable hieghts, procecution will have a field day on your arse..a swell as inmates for a good 20-30 years, more or less depending on severity of crime.


Not only that, once caught, you just little dummy for a cop, they will take you down for everyting after you pull a stupid move.


Trust me i know a cop he's a good buddy and said these words. Copsa re diffrent but the laws the same and so's there protocal.


My gun refence with lockpicks involved in a break in.

Picture robbign a quickie mart with bare fists or jsut walking in and grabbing some twinkies and leaving.

Okay robbery, that (insert punishment)

Now throw a gun, knife, poll, ehh heck bat craw bar..
Armed robbery in the first degree, attempted murdur, assualt , attempted manslaughter, disorderly conducted..on and on..


Get the drift? same with lock picks, they will have a great time resaerching every charge to slam you with..


But be safe pick in you house, follow laws, rules of ethics, and be a good honest person, and you might end up good at picking and helping people, maybe even a locksmith job making money doing these kinds of things.




This should sum up the thread.

[kepiblanc]

I hate to nitpick here, but I really wish some of you guys would proofread whatever you are writing, or run it through a spell check, before you post it. It would just be a bit easier to fully appreciate whatever points you wish to make that way.

[LockNewbie21]

just read what i wrote, its sums up thsi thread,

My grammer sucks i know, just take the adivse for its logical significance and not its grammer and structural.

I rarely ahve a post that has good gramma spelling or structure, put it this way if shrub had a taser.. i'd be dead, or his taser battery would be drained by now.

No griping just learning please

[kepiblanc]

Krypos,

Your point regarding smoking crack versus making and using lock pick tools all for the sole usage at home isn't really such a good one.

Crack use and/or possession is clearly illegal. In case nobody had ever told him or her already, all an individual has to do is watch the TV news, or a show like "Cops", to figure this out - crack is just about illegal everywhere on this planet.

The laws on lock picks vary widely and are some are rather vaguely written, and it seems that even those who are part of the justice system are not too familiar with what they really say.

I watched "America's Most Wanted" last night. I heard the show's host, John Walsh, tell viewers how a wanted fugitive escaped from a county jail in New Jersey by picking a lock with a piece from his eyeglass frames. This ultimately gave him access to the roof to make his escape.

Does this mean now that anybody who wears eyeglasses in certain places is in violation of some vaguely-written law against lock pick possession that exists there?

[p1ckf1sh]

I watched "America's Most Wanted" last night. I heard the show's host, John Walsh, tell viewers how a wanted fugitive escaped from a county jail in New Jersey by picking a lock with a piece from his eyeglass frames. This ultimately gave him access to the roof to make his escape.

kepiblanc, I know that you brought up that little story just for getting your point across, and the comparison is valid and undisputed.

But regarding the story itself - does anyone here really think that this is indeed possible? I have trouble believing this. I think I have seen examples of locks used in jail on here or some other site, and they look devilish. I have trouble believing that a beast like that can be picked or bypassed with just a bit broken of an eyeglass frame...

Apart from that, don't jails implement multiple lines of security, like triggering a circuit when the door is open, video surveilance of the hallways etc.?

Honestly, I think that was bunk to add some drama to the story. Or maybe a turnkey was so hellishly drunk he forgot to lock up properly and they claimed a successful picking in the report to steer clear of having the jailer fired....

[Shrub]

:roll: just read what i wrote, its sums up thsi thread,

My grammer sucks i know, just take the adivse for its logical significance and not its grammer and structural.

I rarely ahve a post that has good gramma spelling or structure, put it this way if shrub had a taser.. i'd be dead, or his taser battery would be drained by now.

No griping just learning please

Ive got no issues with spelling or grammer, mine isnt that good as you all very well know,

Noobs get a bit painful to read with all this text chat and street slang thing but other than that im far far removed from being a spelling or grammer jerk,

It was purley your 3 page long solid blocks of text that hurt my eyes, i wanted to read what you had to say like i do every post thats made on here but found myself starting to skip your posts as it was a massive hasstle to read them, raimondos are the same sometimes, the eturn button is your friend,

Your recent posts are totally fine, things dont have to always make sence as long as the people reading them can see the important bits,

I know your goign through some heatache right now with your uncle dying so dont beat yourself up about it if you make some posts that arent english degree quality, this is after all LP101 and not spelling 101,

[LockNewbie21]

Hey shrub that was a joke mate, i forgot to put a smiley face

I do owe my post-fu to you though, cheers mate


kepiblanc, i understand what your saying, i as well as krypo's were doing the same thing.

I explained laws and Krypos explained crack which was made to be comical and outragious, thus he was trying to get the point that no cop cares if your picking in your house becuase noone knows.


Although i adimire your willingness to have you point heard, get to have you here buddy.

As for jail locks, theres two i know of from two diffrent sources, this buy i know works at the state penetentory, and they don't have locks on the doors.

Its al cotroled through a raised hub at the end of the given block, the can time door opening for 5 mins, for a cell check, or a how block for say a morning line up. No lock so pick proof. ALthough i read and article of some inmatepoking a ceel door with steel you something thus openin it W/e he felt like it.

If i remeber the story correct, he would short out or.. i'm not really an electronics expert, but then would laugh when the door opened, never made a break for it, just sat there and histerically laughed.

I will dig up the article.



Oh i seen a prsion key on special report on CNN where they take you in prisons.. its on at like 1:30 -2:00 AM, and it was a warded key of type, but the wards were massive bassed on the sive of the key to the guards hand, the tourqe would be be insane, there no metal strong enough for that.

I don;t even think that have be springs any more? well a cell bar and a dremel.. and 50 grider and cutoff wheels.