small problem with wiper blade insert picks

[pinsetter]

I've made an entire set of picks from wiper blade inserts, and for the most part they work good, but here's an observation:

The picks are fairly resistant to bending when used properly. They feel good and solid with a bit of "spring" to them if using a lot of picking force. But beware!!

The problem:

The picks will break cleanly with no warning! In the last two days I've broken three picks, one being my favorite half-diamond, the others being my bogota style pick and a snake rake. The picks broke with no prior signs of weakening or wear.

In the case of these 3 picks, I had let a friend of mine "play" with the picks and try to open a couple of my Master padlocks. As with any newbie he was using WAY too much force and had bent the picks just a little. I straightened them and continued using them, not thinking much of it at the time. It has now come to my understanding that if you have to straighten picks made from this material more than a couple of times you had better start making its replacement and have it ready for when the one you're using suddenly, and without any form of warning, just snaps.

The metal cannot withstand much bending before it weakens considerably, and you'll never notice a fracture line before she just lets go completely.

Also of note here:

Don't let your buddies use any picks you really care about! People who do not know how to handle them will shorten their lifespan considerably!

[Wrenchman]

Using a lot of picking force.

I had let a friend of mine "play" with the picks As with any newbie he was using WAY too much force and had bent the picks just a little.

Don't let your buddies use any picks you really care about! People who do not know how to handle them will shorten their lifespan considerably!

Rule #1
Do not use force when you pick a lock

Rule #2
Never ever let anybody touch your babies

Nice try about your friend anyway, yea blame your friend

[zeke79]

Make sure you are quenching the picks in water while grinding. This is where alot of the breaking issues are solved.

[Shrub]

Good advice from Zeke there, in fact you should be quenching every 2 seconds or so and i mean a proper quench, if you hear a hissing and steam comes off youve already got too much heat into them.

If you regulary bend and rebend the material you will work harden it to an extent but it sounds like yours are breaking from brittleness which is due to getting them too hot before quenching.

[illusion]

Since there is so little material to remove on wiper blade inserts use hand files and avoid overheating altogether wif you go slow. Many of them are stainless, and when you ruin the hardness it's a pain to get it back.

I use wiper blade inserts and sweeper bristles primarily for wrenches, and have never had any issues of bending let alone breaking.

A family member was messing about with my Falle Safe picks and was in a position of "Oh bugger, they're gonna break it!" A quick demonstration about how to use them properly had them straight in no time - let your friends and famliy use them, but educate them so they can use them responsibly.

[CVScam]

Can you post a picture of the picks you broke? I just played with a wiper insert and to break it I had to bend it a sharp 90 degrees back and forth over and over again to break it. Did you thin out the picks a lot or grind the metal too much between the groves? Maybe the wiper blade company had some bad grade steel that day.

[Shrub]

I think theyve just been over heated when made as weve said above, try your experiment again but after youve got them red hot and then quenched them, youll find they will snap easily.

[pinsetter]

When I made the picks I quenched in ice water every 2 to 3 seconds. I would just grind off very small amounts and dunk. It took on the average of 10 to 15 minutes to grind each pick due to this. I'm absolutely certain that I didn't overheat the metal. At no point did it ever hiss and steam and the pick felt cold while I was working it.

I'm not one to get in a hurry and rush things. I would rather have a good finished product than a quick finished product. Heck, I even take the time to burnish all the edges and then finish with 1000, then 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper.

Before I go any further I'll point out just how much these picks get used. I pick about 45 locks a day in a practice session, then plus that, anytime I'm watching TV or reading things on the computer, I'll have a lock and a pick in my hand. I'll sit and pick a lock over and over, sometimes for hours. I'm saying that half diamond averaged over 75 pickings a day, almost every day. In my free time I pick locks. I'd say the half diamond easily had over 1000 picks to its credit. All of those adding up to at least a little stress on the picks, especially when picking the locks with security pins.

After looking at a few pick templates that were actually laid out beside rulers I have concluded that I did indeed grind the picks a bit too thin. By thin I'm not meaning the thickness of the material. I made the shafts too weak. It was a learning experience!

But to clarify my original post: It is just wierd the way they broke without any warning whatsoever that they had been weakened by repeated use and in some cases abuse. I honestly did let my friend use them and when he handed them back to me I had to wonder if he had been using enough force to break bones had they been there. They were all 3 bent badly. I straightened them VERY slowly and they appeared to be fine, but before long they all 3 broke exactly where I had previously straightened them.
No warning! They did not bend a second time, they did not look or feel weak, but they snapped like glass. The 3 picks that he bent are the only ones I have broken, so yeah, from this point on NOBODY will be touching my picks, and the picks I make to replace the fallen will have a little more metal left on the shafts.

Shrub, I can honestly see how you would think it was an overheating issue. If I did not KNOW how I made them I'd say the same thing you are saying. The thing is though, that I religiously dunked every single pick no more than 3 seconds apart during the entire grinding process, and I didn't force the grinder to work. I was very careful about the heat issue, and at no point did I get a hissing when the pick hit the water and I never had any discoloring of the metal. I think I just took away too much metal and they weren't strong enough to withstand the amount of use they are subjected to. For instance, the material at the head of my bogota rake was under 1/16 of an inch thick through the bumps, and it broke right at one of the peaks in this thin area. I'll just improve on the next ones and I'll end up getting it right sooner or later!

[Shrub]

You know what mate, your doing just fine, to that sort of useage out of them i think is great, if you break a couple along the way then its to be expected, i havent broken a pick yet but on closer look a couple do have stress marks where they are obviously soon to break but they are SO ones not home mades.

It sounds like youve got a great system of making them and as i say if you are getting that much use out of them your absolutly doing fine, the fact someone else broke them as such must be a apin but either way well done youve obviously got it right.

You have to understand my perspective, in all the time ive been here you are the only one i can recollect where its actually a proper break on a home made tool, the number of posts ive answered because it was over heating is massive i can only hand it to you that you get so much use out of them before youve had your first breaks making them too narrow or not.

I think, in fact im sure, that my cylinder picks havent had that much use so hat off to you keep going as your going and im sorry for getting it wrong this time.

[pinsetter]

Shrub, I would like to point out to you and to everyone else reading this board, that your posts are most always excellent and VERY informative. In fact, I think you're VERY wise where locks and equipment are concerned. Maybe that is why you're one of my favorite posters to read. Well, that and your willingness to help those that ask constructive questions. I have much respect for you! On this instance I just knew that you probably didn't understand the amount of use that my picks get. Sometimes I do things at an almost fanatical level, and I like to be good at whatever it is I decide to do. I'll give new meaning to the word "practice" so that I CAN be good at it. My goal is to become a lockie, and I have a lot to learn! Because of members like you, this is an excellent place to hang out and gain knowledge. I honestly doubt that a course I could take could teach me more than I've been learning here, but I'll take one anyway just to have the diploma!

I was thinking after I posted the first post in this thread that I really couldn't complain too much considering the amount of picking that I do. My picks are rarely idle when I'm at home, and I like most people have my "favorite" picks that see far more use than any of the others. I live somewhat like a hermit. I go to work, and I go home. That's pretty much it. The majority of the time I'm at home I'm in the workshop either making tools for picking, or sitting at my workbench picking locks. I like my workshop so well that it has a 32 inch TV, a couch, a loveseat, a bed, and my computer in it. I would rather be there than in the house. (Imagine how my wife feels about that!) Then again, the wife likes to be with me, so there you have the reason for the couch, loveseat, and TV in my shop.

[pinsetter]

Oh, I almost forgot! I like to be with the wife too from time to time so now you have the reason for the BED in my shop!

[Shrub]

Well thankyou for your compliment its much apprechiated i assure you, i like helping members that are willing to lean and wanting to discuss techniques im not always right but try to be .

I picked like you on mortice locks and still have my moments but am now moving on to cylinders as and when i get complicated ones. Picking in front of the tv is still my favorite past time and the removal of concentration seems to open more locks than when i am trying hard.

Keep up the good work im sure youll make a great lockie

[jgencinc]

This same thing happened to my pick also. I made a Bogota rake out of wiper blade. I'm still a newbie and I bent my rake a little bit. I straightened it out and thought it was fine. Soon after, the head of the rake snapped off exactly where the bend had occurred.

[ekips]

Is there anyway to save a pick that gets bent?

Touch wood I havn't bent any yet but if (WHEN, coz its bound to happen) I do, can I save it?

Would heating it up then straightening do it? or is that it? start making a new one ready?

[pinsetter]

jgencinc:

As Shrub pointed out earlier, overheating is the main cause of such problems as this, BUT if you're absolutely sure this wasn't your problem I'll wager that you didn't leave enough metal to provide ample strength. My homemade picks were way too thin. I've made replacements for my bogota rake and my half-diamond and they're much better than my previous ones. My misconception as a newbie was that the picks needed to be super thin through the pick shaft, but this is not true. The shafts can be 1/8" thick and should only taper to under that about 3/8" from the head of the pick, and from the handle should gradually taper into the shaft. On my bogota I made sure to keep a minimum of 1/16" throughout the head, and more where the points meet the valleys.

ekips:

I would say it depends on what material your picks are made from as to how forgiving they are after being bent. I just found that wiper inserts are more brittle than I had first thought, but like I posted already, my biggest problem was taking away too much metal. If you leave enough metal, the wiper blade inserts are actually very resistant to bending.

BUT from MY experience, once you've bent a pick significantly it will never be as strong as it was before you bent it. I would stay away from heating and re-tempering the steel if I were you. Unless you're confident you know the proper heating/cooling technique you'll likely not get the result you want. I'd personally just get a new pick ready if you had one you knew had been weakened.