Raimundo's Bogota "How to" documents

[NKT]

If it's a rakeable lock, then yes, I will normally rake it open with the Bogata. If it goes to anti-pick, however, I will then single pin the remaining pins.

Of course, on something where there are 5 or 6 anti-picks, this is easier said than done.

[reactive]

I seem to get all the pins at once or none at all. If you get a few set the bogota kind of gets stuck since you can't push certain pins up anymore restricting the angle you can use when you raking. I just reset all the pins and try again till I get them all at once.

[raimundo]

I have a different experience, but I leave it to others to defend my position, with light tension, you can pick shrooms and spools, perhaps this is different with euro cylinders, which have heavier pin springs, and are mounted upside down, (as we say over here) If I say too much it will be considered partisan, but I hope someone will come in on this who is having a better result than those who "don't get it" if you are using your own copies, perhaps its about finishing, or perhaps they are not as slim as those I make. I can't know if that's the case, but many people on this forum do "get it"

[pinsetter]

For people making their own bogotas, I've found that this helps:

Use a key as a template to space the ridges on your pick. Remember, steep ridges, sweeping valleys. Place the ridges so that the spacing places the ridges between two pins so that pins are riding on the sides of the ridges.
The spacing is pretty important to the function in my experience.

When using the pick, do NOT use a raking motion. Place the pick in the lock so that all pins are engaged by the ridges and valleys of the pick, and use a rapid rocking motion combined with a very small forward and back movement of the pick. While doing this, use a VERY LIGHT tension and a consistent bouncing of that VERY LIGHT tension. Sometimes I use a very rapid bouncing of tension if the lock doesn't open right away. The faster you can jiggle the pick in a controlled manner and bounce the tension to match the pick movement, the faster you'll open the lock. This is from my personal experience, and I must say that once you get the hang of it the picks work like magic!

Raimundo, does this sound like the technique you designed the picks for? If not it sure works for me!

[vector40]

I'll often tilt the rake back and use its tip as a diamond to focus my raking more if I feel I'm getting close.

[raimundo]

pinsetters on to it.

[p1ckf1sh]

with light tension, you can pick shrooms and spools, perhaps this is different with euro cylinders, which have heavier pin springs, and are mounted upside down, (as we say over here) If I say too much it will be considered partisan, but I hope someone will come in on this who is having a better result than those who "don't get it" if you are using your own copies, perhaps its about finishing, or perhaps they are not as slim as those I make. I can't know if that's the case, but many people on this forum do "get it"

Oh, don't get me wrong, Bogota's are great, I had my first valid openings with them on a two-spool BKS and a two-spool Abus. It's just that as of recently I seem to have "lost it". And I am still trying to figure out whether this is because of my new bogota's spacing/depth or the fact that my first pickings were factory-pinned and my locks now are repinned to more challenging bittings not paying attention to MACS or DIN specs.

I might whip out a new batch of them soon to do some empirical testing. I'd still love to see a pic of a Bogota made by yourself next to a ruler. As of now I use dimension that make roughly 1.75 pins fit into the valley. Maybe I should do some experiments, one valley shorter, one longer or something... We'll see.

[p1ckf1sh]

and use a rapid rocking motion combined with a very small forward and back movement of the pick.

This is another problem with euro locks - at least with mine. The space is pretty limited by warding and the tighter keyway. This might inhibit the rocking to some degree. But I use my bogotas just like you described, plus adding some tilting occasionally.

[raimundo]

I have found an odd thing in using the bogotas, since they are handmade, there is no such thing as an exact copy of the one made before, though they are all made to a general pattern that does not change much, the height of the tips can vary from the material available to use, and it seems that when you have a few different sets, you can come on a lock that will not open with one set and yet will open quickly with a different set that is not visibily much different, perhaps the heights are a microscopically different, the slope angles may be different, or the spacing, but the one thing that stands out is the tensor blade, here small differences can mean a great deal. Only by using a variety of tensors each of which is sanded to a round edge that will not grab or cut into the cylinder wall or otherwise cause the tensor to bind, you can find that a lock that opens with one will not open with a very similiar one.
I know that many of you have several sets, perhaps you also experience this quirk

[p1ckf1sh]

but the one thing that stands out is the tensor blade, here small differences can mean a great deal. Only by using a variety of tensors each of which is sanded to a round edge that will not grab or cut into the cylinder wall or otherwise cause the tensor to bind, you can find that a lock that opens with one will not open with a very similiar one.
I know that many of you have several sets, perhaps you also experience this quirk

Hehe, I have so many tension tools, it'd not even funny anymore. I agree with the rounding of the blade, but quite some of my locks are warded so stupidly that no tension tools will really fit well in the top part of the keyway. So I usually put tension in the narrow, lower part of the keyway (right in front of the first pin). Don't ask me how often I have kicked out the tension tool while doing a ripping or raking motion. It works well for the bogota action, though.

Ray, one more thing, you have a Bogota and there is another thing, I believe it is called Sabana. It is basically made of two rounded peaks at the front and the end of the business end of the pick and a flat valley in between. What is the purpose of this? Well, lockpicking, I guess, but how are you using it? Like the Bogota itself?

[chrisjc33]

i got some wiper inserts but look to small,only 2.8mm
have i got the wrong ones?and if so how wide should they be?

[Blink]

[quote="p1ckf1sh]Ray, one more thing, you have a Bogota and there is another thing, I believe it is called Sabana. It is basically made of two rounded peaks at the front and the end of the business end of the pick and a flat valley in between. What is the purpose of this? Well, lockpicking, I guess, but how are you using it? Like the Bogota itself?[/quote]

The Sabana rake is primarily designed for a lock with a pin configuration of short-long-long-short, so the long pins can ride the valley while the shorts pins hit the peaks.

I just got a Bogota and Sabana rake from Raimundo, well, actually, I got a couple, but haven't had time to try em out yet, trying to get caught up in school .

[raimundo]

As blink said, the sabana will work pins deep in the lock and toward the outside as well while trying not to disturb long middle pins, the long middle pins are one of the harder configurations to pick since trying to reach under them and lift the pin at the furthest part of the keyway is not possible with the bogota rake. also, the sabana when not fully inserted to the last pin in the lock just works like any other half diamond.

[reactive]

After reading pinsetter's comments, I think I was definately using too much tension. I can still feel some pins binding whilst using the 'too much coffee' technique, but with the light tension you can still manipulate the rest of the pins which wasn't happening before. Thanks for the tips

i got some wiper inserts but look to small,only 2.8mm
have i got the wrong ones?and if so how wide should they be?

My homemade jobbie is about 3.2mm wide. Give it a go anyway... it should still work, though it will probably be more effective in smaller locks. I just made mine from what I saw in the pictures so I may not be accurate in my bogota-fu.

Has anyone tried to make the variation of the bogota for double sided wafer locks?
Picture in this thread
My car key looks like a bogota but with larger valley's... I might have a go at making one when I next get some free time

[raimundo]

A lot of car keys are one sided locks with double sided keys, this is to make it more convenient for drunk drivers.