New Mul-t-lock MT5 (bump-proof lock ?)

[dermaud]

Good morning guys !

Have you information about the new MT5 high security lock, with pins + sidebar + interactive module ?

Discuss and video here : http://protections-vol.com/autres.html
but nothing on the webiste of Mul-t-lock.com ???

It seems a very interesting cylinder of new generation, with anti bumping feature.

Thank you for contributors.

Fred

[mh]

No,
but THANKS for that link!

http://protections-vol.com/ shows so many interesting locks I've never seen before!

THANKS again!

mh

[n2oah]

OMG! Protections-vol was updated!!!! It would be nice if we hadn't told off the owner of that site

That lock looks awesome and very hard to pick. Anyone know where/when I can get one?

[illusion]

I think that it is similar to a lasertrack lock...

There are sliders that run along the grooves, similar to a lasertrack or 'worm' key. The basic Mul-T-Lock mechanism is unchanged so that will bump.

The question really is this: Is this groove region specific? I'd imagine the ability to cut the groove will likely not be given out, thus the blanks may come pre-cut.

If the blanks do come pre-cut we have the Assa-Twin dilemna.

If you could get a region specific blank cut to a bump key, you could bump the ordinary pins, and allow the sliders to set normaly on the groove of the key.

The Alpha Spring concerns me, but I wonder if it is specific to certain places on the key?

[n2oah]

I think that it is similar to a lasertrack lock...

There are sliders that run along the grooves, similar to a lasertrack or 'worm' key. The basic Mul-T-Lock mechanism is unchanged so that will bump.

The question really is this: Is this groove region specific? I'd imagine the ability to cut the groove will likely not be given out, thus the blanks may come pre-cut.

If the blanks do come pre-cut we have the Assa-Twin dilemna.

If you could get a region specific blank cut to a bump key, you could bump the ordinary pins, and allow the sliders to set normaly on the groove of the key.

The Alpha Spring concerns me, but I wonder if it is specific to certain places on the key?

I think this "Alpha spring" (sounds like they are now putting radioactive elements in keys!) is only in one place on every key. I would think that the laser track is cut at the factory, since most lockies don't have the ability to cut laser track keys. Maybe Mul-t-lock will release a new key machine that does both dimple AND laser track. (I can only imagine how much this would cost...)

[dermaud]

For the "laser cut" i don't think like you, I explain :

in USA (example Assa, Schlage ...) the sidebar is different depending of the region and/or of the locksmith
in this case, the sidebar is cut by the factory and the locksmith has only to cut the traditional pins on a prepared blank

in Europe, when a lock has a laser cut, this laser-cut is different for each lock, and is cut with a special numerical-command machine in the same time that other elements of the key, on a dedicated machine (exemples to see on protections-vol : Champions 48, Ikon wsw, Evva 3ks ...)

It's why I can imagine that such a lock can't be bumped because in my humble opinion, the laser-cut is different for each lock

Fred

[skold]

For the "laser cut" i don't think like you, I explain :

in USA (example Assa, Schlage ...) the sidebar is different depending of the region and/or of the locksmith
in this case, the sidebar is cut by the factory and the locksmith has only to cut the traditional pins on a prepared blank

in Europe, when a lock has a laser cut, this laser-cut is different for each lock, and is cut with a special numerical-command machine in the same time that other elements of the key, on a dedicated machine (exemples to see on protections-vol : Champions 48, Ikon wsw, Evva 3ks ...)

It's why I can imagine that such a lock can't be bumped because in my humble opinion, the laser-cut is different for each lock

Fred

Factory cuts (schlage, assa and lockwood twin...) are known as side cuts. They are essencially the same thing as any other "laser" cut key (except for 3ks)

The term Laser Cut usually refers to laser guided key machines (don't qoute me on that though)

[mh]

The term Laser Cut usually refers to laser guided key machines (don't qoute me on that though)

I thought it's more a marketing term
which should suggest that one needs a high powered laser beam to cut the shape - making it difficult for thieves, as they don't have access to such hi-tech equipment

[illusion]

Lasertrack keys are cut using a milling machine - the term 'laser' I guess describes the 'high-tech' appearance of the keys.

So we are 100% sure that this groove is independant to each lock?

I reckon it will be like the Assa Twin with the groove being region specific IMHO.

[andy6r]

this lock will bump
have seen it done
have tried myself with success
needs a small collar at shoulder and a gentle bump

[zeke79]

Did you bump a lock you had with it's own working key made into a bumpkey? If so it's likely that your bumpkey will work on very very few locks if any others. With a working key, you will just about always be able to make a working bumpkey. In this case, what is the point if it only works on 1 lock.

Anyhow, it's early and I am rambling before coffee and that's a bad situation .

[Al]

MT5 is not yet in full production. The sliders will be unique to each dealer. Every dealer has a dedicated machine that duplicates keys via a magnetic swipe on the registration card. The machines do both pin and slider cuts on the key.
Each machine is electronically locked so dealers cannot cut another's restricted keys.
The sliders are so close to the pins that picking will be a nightmare.

[n2oah]

MT5 is not yet in full production. The sliders will be unique to each dealer. Every dealer has a dedicated machine that duplicates keys via a magnetic swipe on the registration card. The machines do both pin and slider cuts on the key.
Each machine is electronically locked so dealers cannot cut another's restricted keys.
The sliders are so close to the pins that picking will be a nightmare.

So it is bump-able, as long as you have that dealer's sidebar combo?
The electronic "locking" on the machine sounds like it could be bypassed, but I doubt anyone would screw with their 10k+ machine.

[greyman]

Thanks for posting the link. Interesting piece of kit, although it seems to be an admission from MulTlock that either their interactive model is easy to defeat or that the patent is running out or both.

Can we please agree that a sidebar lock is only "bumpable" if you know the sidebar code, which, IMO, is cheating since you immediately neutralise the sidebar. Without the sidebar code, you are never going to bump it open!!!

[illusion]

Yes... If the groove is random then you will not be able to bump it, UNLESS you carry enough keys to cover every possible sidebar code.. which is so heinously impractical that I guess it does qualify as bump proof.

Medeco can be bumped, IF you have enough keys to cover every possible angle combo... but that's a lot of keys. I guess then since you get different keyways it becomes even harder so in reality it's bump proof as well.

The Interactive model is no harder to pick than the classic model - the single difference being that the interactive pin must be lifted to the uncut height, and the inner pin lifted a bit higher.

The Souber picks open MTL with practice, and since certain **unscrupulous** individuals have started selling the MTL picks to the public it's not quite so secure as they would hope. I would imagine it's more a combination between the Michaud attack, bumping, and people picking them that led MDL to update the design.