An observation concerning security pins

[pinsetter]

I was wondering if this is a common thing. I'll explain below:

Here's what I done:

I bought an ASSA twin lock a while back, and after unsuccessfully trying to pick it until I got beyond annoyed, I disassembled it and took out 3 of the main pinstacks. That gave me 3 spool pins to play with in other cylinders.

I took a regular 5 pin Kwikset, and with pins from several locks I pinned the Kwikset as follows from front to back: Low, Medium, Low, Medium, & High.
I placed 3 spools from the ASSA in the 2, 4, and 5 chambers, leaving chambers 1 and 3 with normal pins.

My observation:

Needless to say, the spool pins made the Kwikset a little more challenging to pick, but I noticed something by *knowing* the pin configuration.

No matter what the binding order, if I DID NOT get the 2 normal pins set before I began on the spool pins, every time I tried to set one of the normal pins it would reset the lock. Therefore, every time I successfully picked this configuration I had to make sure I got the 2 regular pins set first. Once I got the two normal pins set, then I could work on the spools without causing the pins to reset.

Has anyone else that is experienced with security pins noticed this?
Is it a common occurrance with security pins or just something about this particular lock?
I know that most companies combine security pins with regular pins, and have started to wonder if this is part of the reason.

[Shrub]

As you used pins not meant for that lock i dont think its a good enough statement, the pins would only need to be a slightly differant diameter to make this work in this way.

[pinsetter]

I was thinking about that after I posted this. The pins appear to be the same size as the standard pins, but in such small parts even a tiny discrepency that you couldn't discern without precision mics or calipers could make a huge difference. I may take some standard Kwikset top pins and make my own spools out of them and see how it goes then. Really, the only thing I may have discovered with this at this point is that my spool pins may be a different diameter than the Kwikset standard pins. I should have mic'ed the pins before posting this to make sure they were the same diameter.

Ahh well, I thought I may have been on to something there.

[digital_blue]

Since it is common for the narrow part of a spool pin to be crossing the shear line when sitting at rest, it is also common that you *have* to set the normal pin stacks first. The others just don't bind very well. If you lift a spool pin and apply tension you can get it to bind, but as you say, it doesn't do you a lot of good in this case because you will unset the stack when trying to bind a normal one.

This is not always the case, but is pretty common.

db

[pinsetter]

Thanks DB!

So I really could have learned something.

I'm gonna measure the diameter of the pins tonight so I'll know for sure if that has much to do with it since Shrub pointed out that I used pins by a different manufacturer.

I neglected to say in my first post, that when testing the theory of setting the normal pins first I removed all but 3 pin stacks and placed 2 spools and 1 normal pin in the front 3 chambers. Even then I had to pick the one normal pin first, then the 2 spools. Even if I got the spools to set (or false set), they would reset in the process of setting the normal pin.

I actually like having the cheap Kwikset cylinder and a wide array of pins to play with. The Kwikset cylinders are so easy to re-pin they actually make good learning tools.

[Anziano Jackson]

I got a Master 40 lock with a spool pin. One thing that worked for me on some of them (not all), I'd pick all the pins and it'd bind on the spool. Then, I lightly took off the tension after finding which one was the security pin and took off just enough to move that pin. One I did without letting others fall, you find the sheer line and it opens