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Any good?

This is the old Locksmith business info area and will be broken down to fill in the new sections below.

Any good?

Postby patrick101 » 12 Jun 2006 12:49

Hey I am looking around for locksmith courses in the North of England, Southern Scotland. I came across this one, looks good but im wonderin if anyone has been on it or if they have any opinions.

http://traintobealocksmith.com/

Thanks in advance,

Patrick
I am free of all prejudices. I hate everybody equally.
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Postby digital_blue » 12 Jun 2006 12:52

Without opening a whole can of worms...

You CAN'T learn to be a locksmtih on a 2 day course. Period.

db
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Postby patrick101 » 12 Jun 2006 12:57

Yeah I know i can't learn to be a locksmith in 2 days but I would like to go on this course for a couple of days then go to my local locksmith who is offering me an apprenticeship. It is just to get to grips with the simple things so we don't wast loads of time teaching me simple things when i get an apprenticeship.

Thanks
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Postby illusion » 12 Jun 2006 14:53

Okay... so let's run this over, shall we?

Picking "Yale" type cyliner locks.


Dude - you should be able to do this already. If not, then you know how to learn for free.
Picking Euro and Oval type cylinders (The type found on uPVC doors).

Same as above - why they think it's another skill I don't know.

The use of the Letterbox Tool

So bloody obvious it's amazing - tool goes through the letterbox slot and turns thumb turns etc... take it for an afternoon walk round your mate's houses and you'll pick it up fast.

The use of the Lock Cracker Tool

Again, a very simple tool, and you can teach yourself in less than a day.
Electric and Manual Pick Guns

Say a few days to practice with - should be enough time to get to grips.

Latch Slipping Cards

Order a pack of Mica and find a friend who has a night latch on their door. Simple to learn.

Drilling Techniques

Ok... fair cop on BS locks... SV will sell you a full kit complete with all you need for £100 that will open BS lever locks... but you shouldn't really be using it much.

Broken Key Extractors

Take a practice lock, put a key in, smash the handle of the key off. Play about with the key extractors untill you get it right.

Padlock Picks, including: Shims, Combo Picks, Mini-Knife etc.

Not hard... if you're not a moron you'll figure it out with ease - and he has vids of the tools in action on his site... gleam what you can.

Opening Filing Cabinets

WTF!!?!?!??!?!??!?!?! You don't need training to open simple wafer locks... sorry... that;s crap if he considers it a specific area of learning.
Mortice Locks, including: 2, 3 and 5 Lever types AND BS3621 5 Lever insurance approved locks

Meh... that's something worth a a few pennies, but you won't be able to open BS locks after only 2 days.

The use of Lever wires and picks

My guide on this site will teach you this for free, and also show you how to make your own picks.

The use of the Curtain Wheel Pick

Useful, but the tool is self-explanatory. You will need to practice for a while before you pick open anything more than a Union BS.

The use of the 2 in 1 Pick

Neat... but again you could teach yourself this, and you'll still need to practice after the course is over.
The use of the Tubular Lock Pick

Could be useful... but you just slide all the sliders to the uncut position on the pick, and tighten the O-ring. Insert into the lock and just turn it from left to right. The sliders will self impression and adjust themselves to the right position.

In my humble opinion, this course costs far more than it is worth, and you won't walk away with any tools.

The only thing you will walk away with is a certificate that says you are a bona fide locksmith - which is turd since there is no such thing as a bona fide locksmith in the UK anyway.

Almost a grand on a 2 day course... Do the math.

JUST MHO.
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Postby CJM » 12 Jun 2006 19:47

How about taking the job offered and getting an understanding of the trade so as you will know what courses you need. Also this company a short while ago was advertising in job centres across the UK for "locksmiths?" to teach these courses. If they where any good and respected do you think they would need to go outside of the core trade to get staff? Get some real knowlage under your belt and then make a choice.
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Postby toomush2drink » 13 Jun 2006 4:43

If you are being offered an apprenticeship take it because they are very rare to get. I tried for a long timeto get a shop based job so forget that course andget into the lockie shop those sorts of offers are like gold dust now
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Postby oaksy » 13 Jun 2006 5:57

If i was you i would search this website becuase all the info you need is here...
Most of the stuff you can do yourself like illusion said get a understanding about everything go home and practice hard...

If this locksmith is going to give you a job then you have the best of both worlds he will help you along and as for this you wont need to spend money on training... :wink: :wink: :wink:
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Postby pip » 13 Jun 2006 6:17

buy an old locksmith book ( over 20 years old )
and learn the basics

$690 GBP ( that's like $1350 CAN )

for 2 days

falls off chair laughing ( again ) Image


pip makes note to self
if i ever go to the UK
bring my own water supply
and homemade tinfoil deflector hat
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Postby patrick101 » 13 Jun 2006 11:22

Thanks for your thoughts, i think ill just go for the apprenteship after all

Patrick
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Postby 79commando » 5 Mar 2008 18:40

Hi Patrick, How did you get on with your apprenticeship? Hopefully if you took it up you got a good teacher as there are a few locksmiths out there with years of experience that can't open an envelope.
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Postby JackNco » 5 Mar 2008 20:49

the guy made 30 posts 3 years ago. chances are hes not around so much these days....
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Postby cjames73 » 5 Mar 2008 22:34

JackNco wrote:the guy made 30 posts 3 years ago. chances are hes not around so much these days....

he made his last post 2 days ago, asking about FB courses i think.
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Postby Eyes_Only » 6 Mar 2008 0:53

How come the US has a bunch of home study locksmith courses but the UK seems to have no legitimate counterpart?
If a lock is a puzzle, then its key is the complete picture
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Postby patrick101 » 6 Mar 2008 16:56

Heyy thanks tons for your comprehensive responses, and sorry i've not got back to you quicker, but my internet was broken for months, and exams have had me snowed under...

So what the situation now is this... I went to this locksmith (After reading on the site that it was best to get hands on experience) asking to see what the possible chances of getting an apprenticeship were like. However, I think he misinterpreted what I was saying, and so it ended up he thought what i really wanted was a part time job at the front counter of the shop or something like that (I know this seems like a very odd mistake to make, but i didn't want to turn up at his shop saying "will you train me to be a locksmith", it's too blunt for the British:P So i ended up only really asking for some part time work, maybe following him around, which quickly ended up just standing at the counter of the shop doing very little).

It was at this point i posted this message as i wanted to actually learn about locksmithing not just sitting in a shop, and although i knew i could not learn to be a locksmith in 2 days it would at least give me some experience.

Anyway after a few Saturday mornings of this, I quickly discovered a few things...

Firstly the guy who ran the business, the lcoksmith, always seemed quite malcontent with the lockmithing trade, and he definitely was not making a huge profit like advertised on many websites.

Secondly, his job actually very rarely involved any of the "exciting" parts of locksmithing which I had envisaged, rather the monotonous fitting doors, and replacing bits and bobs.

Lastly the guy worked very, very hard for in return not really all that much. Like running the business and doing locksmithing and just about everything else.

So after being able to observe him I really just decided it was not for me. I just said thanks for the job but i couldn't make a long term comitment to it and left.

Now i think im just going to look at the "fun" parts e.g. lockpicking which i am much more interested as a hobby rather than professionally running a small business in a (some say) declining market being taken over by big businessess/corperations.

So although I didn't end up learning about the actual technical aspects of locksmithing i did learn to not comit to something 100% until you know exactly whats involved.

Anyway, sorry for the essay... and thanks again for all the help

Patrick
I am free of all prejudices. I hate everybody equally.
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Postby 79commando » 6 Mar 2008 19:12

Good move Patrick, All too often fools fall for the pound signs advertised on the course web sites without thinking if the locksmith trade was so lucrative why are they training people?

The shop where you went to work was probably run by a general key cutter that knew a bit about locksmithing as opposed to a real locksmith. There are a couple of not bad locksmiths in Glasgow but generally most would struggle to open a Yale cylinder non-destructively.

For the real locksmithing find a company that does warrant work for the utilities but again make sure they pick the locks. There are a couple of companies that get some warrants not through their skill level more that it is better to have someone turn up rather than no one.
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