BELLLOCK by The Eagle Lock Co, Terryville, Conn.

[p1ckf1sh]

mh, nice lock, nice breakdown, thanks. Where do you always dig up those extraordinary locks?

I just have two questions, and I think they don't touch bypass in any way.

1. Any idea what this lock has been used on? Safes, high security cabinets or something like this? (EDIT: Just noticed that the answer was already there - phone coinbox.)

2. I gather from the pics and the description that the two sides of the key are cut differently. Basically one side is useless and could remain "uncut" in order for the key to still open that lock, right?

3. The wards on the end of the key (where the ring goes, the part you have in your fingers, with the hole for the keyring... is that the head? the bow? not sure), are those to identify the correct orientation of the key? I mean with the sides different, there has to be a way to see if you are using the correct side, do you think that is what they are there for?

[mh]

mh, nice lock, nice breakdown, thanks. Where do you always dig up those extraordinary locks?

ebay

1. Any idea what this lock has been used on? Safes, high security cabinets or something like this? (EDIT: Just noticed that the answer was already there - phone coinbox.)

I'm not sure about this, though. The seller made a reference to that, and somehow, the word "Bell" could imply an association with the telephone company. But I would love to hear more about that from experts in lock history...

2. I gather from the pics and the description that the two sides of the key are cut differently. Basically one side is useless and could remain "uncut" in order for the key to still open that lock, right?

I would say, it has to be a "dummy" cut; if uncut, the key could not be inserted. It would stop at the first wafer / finger.

3. The wards on the end of the key (where the ring goes, the part you have in your fingers, with the hole for the keyring... is that the head? the bow? not sure), are those to identify the correct orientation of the key? I mean with the sides different, there has to be a way to see if you are using the correct side, do you think that is what they are there for?

yep. You could insert it both ways, but feeling the notches helps holding it the right way.

Cheers,
mh

[Shrub]

As i feared, that lock break down although nicely presented will now allow a car thief to realise how the locks are put together (laser locks) and simply use the process of picking a wafer lock slightly modified on them to gain entry,

That was my worry all along.

[mh]

As i feared, that lock break down although nicely presented will now allow a car thief to realise how the locks are put together (laser locks) and simply use the process of picking a wafer lock slightly modified on them to gain entry,
That was my worry all along.

You are assuming that such person has certain capabilities (brainpower, ...) - I believe that a person with these capabilities doesn't need these pictures either.
Also I think that the added security from this concept is only key control (more difficult key duplication).

mh

[p1ckf1sh]

As i feared, that lock break down although nicely presented will now allow a car thief to realise how the locks are put together (laser locks) and simply use the process of picking a wafer lock slightly modified on them to gain entry,

That was my worry all along.

Well, I am not trying to start an argument here, but...

1. What if some $INSERT_CAR-MANUFACTURER decided to go back to the good old pin tumbler as a main lock on his new models? Would you drag all things pin tumbler-related to the adv. section?

2. Professional car thiefs don't worry about the door locks. In order to steal a modern car (and the cars with track locks should be considered such) he needs to find a way to circumvent the electronics to start the car. We both know what this means, and we both know what a considerate amount of ressources, dedication and cleverness (technically) is required to this. Somebody ready to go this way will most certainly not have the need to rely on LP101 to find out how that odd track lock is put together.

He can rent a car, disassemble the lock and find out before returning the car with the lock reassembled. He can also try to get a lock from a junkyard. I am absolutely sure that professional car thieves know how these locks work and operate even before we do.

And if someone just wanted to get into the car to steal the stereo...oh, well. I have heard anecdotary evidence that there have been car break-ups before LP101 came to life, and I am pretty certain that there would be no observable rise of break-ups even if the entire adv. section was released to the public. If someone wants to get into a car, he can break the lock, rip it, drill it, smash a window, wedge the door and manipulate the inner grip or just rely on this rich jerk leaving the car unlocked in his driveway.

Honestly, I don't see how a bunch of pictures is a threat to national car security. There are no bypass techniques discussed or explained. The most common bypasses for locks of this type on cars are not even mentioned.

Once again, I respect and commend all you guys ethical guidelines and principles. But I think there has to be a border for everything.

EDIT: One more thing, two or three people on here know about it already, but I never talked publicly about it - when I posted the thread regarding tapping/threading I was in the project of making a tool to pick my VW lock. It took some time and some tries, but I succeeded eventually. And that was before these pictures were posted, and I did not even disassemble my own car lock for that. (No, I will not post infos on the tool. Go away people, this was just mentioned to hammer my point home.)

[p1ckf1sh]

I'm not sure about this, though. The seller made a reference to that, and somehow, the word "Bell" could imply an association with the telephone company. But I would love to hear more about that from experts in lock history...

Yeah, the term Bell also rings that association. Eagle Lock Co. seems to have been a big player in the US market at some time. I found this little blurb on http://www.scripophily.net/ealoconewyo1.html:

The company was established in 1833 and incorporated in 1854. At one time, Eagle was the largest trunk and cabinet lock maker in the world. In Terryville, Connecticut, stands the Lock Museum of America. Since 1972, when the museum was established in a small store on Terryville's Main Street, the museum has grown to over 500 members. They have a website at http://www.lockmuseum.com/index.html.

I would say, it has to be a "dummy" cut; if uncut, the key could not be inserted. It would stop at the first wafer / finger.

Yup, I supposed as much as that - there could be any kind of cut on that side, just as long as a cut is there, no matter if it is a wide slot leaving the discs alone or pushes them to hell and back. That is what i meant with "uncut", an uncoded cut.

[Shrub]

I was in the project of making a tool to pick my VW lock.

I wouldnt mind a pm with a pic or two of this if you would like to share

[p1ckf1sh]

(No, I will not post infos on the tool. Go away people, this was just mentioned to hammer my point home.)

Just for the record, I didn't want to sound like an ass here, that takes all the info he can get from the site without the inclination to give something back. I just wanted to make sure I don't receive lots of PM from lurkers/people unknown to me or requests to post the info publicly. That said, I certainly cannot make out any reasons not to send you a PM, Shrub, might take a second for a quick writeup and the pictures.

Although I am not a adv. section member, I will still adhere to the site rules, that was all I wanted to get around with the "no, I will not post info on that tool" part. In all other situations, I am more than happy to share and spread around information, that's not just a habit but more like a philosophical attitude.

[greyman]

Shrub, I'm a bit surprised the pictures of a Bell lock are worrying to you. Perhaps it is because they are used in sensitive applications like coin boxes and lockers.

The Bell lock design is quite old, close to 100 years I believe. It's discussed in some textbooks on locksmithing. But as far as cars go, no thief is going to bother picking a bell lock cylinder in a car when using force would be much easier.

This thread seems to be turning to the security versus obscurity arguments raised in another thread

http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=13731

Anyway, mh, thanks for the pictures. It is a nice lock. I don't think the pictures will result in a rash of burglaries.

[Shrub]

Im just a sensative soul when it comes to anything remotely simular to vehicle locks that are deemed high security like a laser track lock,

In a way i judge others by my own mentality i suppose, if i see a lock breakdown i instantly start inventing tools and then go on to make them to bypass or pick those locks, i forget somtimes that im one of the few that do this.

[jasonthekey]

these locks are or were used on slot machines

[raimundo]

regardless of where they were used, they are not highsecurity locks. there are two rows of wafers, that each have a finger to track in the groove on the key.

where these wafers are pushed out of the plug into the cylinder groove, they have a sharp angle on one side and an oblique angle on the other side. The sharp angle can be a bit twitchy to pick in one direction while the oblique angle is the opposite,

the wafers stick out of the plug on both top and bottom, and if you overset one you can just get on the finger and pull it back. This means that some forceful picking does work as you can push the tumblers up and then push them back down. I wouldn't use much force on the tension though. The lock is also probably suceptible to some kinds of 'marshal' keys that alternatly push the tumblers up and down

These were never secure.

Years ago, i worked for a taxi company, the little aluminum strongboxes bolted to the transmission humps in the checker marathons, had this kind of lock.
The drivers came in at the end of the shift and gassed up the cars, the key to the strongboxes was kept at the gas pumps, the drivers took the money out of the safe and sometimes a driver would actually take the key home in his pocket, by accident. then they would call me in and I would hang around the gas pump and open the strongboxes as the cars came in until they could locate the driver who took the key.

THese are not high security locks,

[Baloopaloop]

Wow, that looks a ton like a design of the evva 3ks system. I wonder if they had the same designer or something, or whether that is where evva got the idea. Crazy lock dude, nice post