Make a Bump Proof Lock.

[pradselost]

Bumping is just a bunch of hype. Scare the public into buying $200 + locks is all. Comes after 911 as well go figure.

Bumping, to the best of my knowledge originated largely in Europe. TOOOL had a rather important role, for example, in trying to give seminars about bumping to bring it to the awareness of security companies. So the 9-11 reference, imho, isn't validated by any logic. Crashing planes through buildings and bumping locks are quite different things.

Also...if anything, bumping would scare people OUT of buying expensive locks, due to many high security locks being vulnerable. The majority of people will not buy a lock over $200...if properly scared I feel that they would buy a few deadbolts and chains.

Just my opinion, however.

[LockNewbie21]

I second th above opinion, i highly doubt alkeda or h/e you spell the idiot band of mens name could care less about any lock, if oyu go to you tube and watch some special forces demos the will shoot out the secting of the door that holds the lock witha good AR15 and there in no bump key i'd imagine if someone was serious about bypassing security this would be a faster more plausable approach hence the use by the military. Is the bump key deal a proboble hype generate to give those political and news shows something to rant on about probobly does anybody care...no, well maybe for a day after they see a demo, then there dog craps on the floor or kid eats glue and POOF! gone they forget, don't belive me? Walk up to any normal person and ask are you protected from the bump key? They will probobly mace you thinking you going to abduct them. It was a plausable idea that lacked enough research, but initial reasoning is idiotic.. don;t mean to be harsh but come on 9/11? All i see there is the poor familes that got those phone calls, not a bump key.


Andy

[Temple]

Since 911 anybody who wants to make a quick buck off the public selling what ever gimick they dreamed up at there dining room table uses 911 as a scare tactic. You could sell duct tape and plastic wrap to people if you tell them the Taliban has chem/bio weapons, oh wait that's already been done. So yeah tell the public terrorists have bump keys and we all need to buy new locks that can't be bumped, "yes officer the bad guys coldn't get through my doors so they hooked a truck to my garage door yanked it out and went in that way"

I would have to say that terrorists with bump keys is the last thing we need to worry about.

[LockNewbie21]

Amen Temple... more like the AK's and there funny smelling little bidi ciggerettes


Andy

[doggy1]

Just a quick idea on a bump proof lock.
Would having different strength springs behined the driver pins, with the
weakest spring behined the 1st pin that binds, the second weakest spring
behind the second pin that binds, and so on until the last pin to bind has
the strongest spring behined it.
Also have the plug holes beveled the same as what yale do.

would this idea stop bumping?
i cannot test this idea out as i've not even got any lock picks yet.

[Shrub]

Well that would mean the manufacturer knows what way a lock will bind and 5 differant machines to put the springs in,

The better way is to have a counter bored hole so that the pins dont actually sit on each other unless the right key is inserted, the low cuts on a bum key wont lift the pins high enough,

With no opposing reaction to the actio th lock simply can not be bumped.

[Kaotik]

Not my intention to change the subject again, but IMO 9/11 and bumping high security locks are indeed similar and it all starts with bypassing security devices in general whether mechanical or electronical.

I know that bypassing is not discussed in the general open forum so this is as far as i go in this subject.

Note: This is my opinion and was only brought up due to the subject matter of 9/11.

[doggy1]

If the alignment of the plug holes axis was skewed from the centre line,
then the binding of the driver pins would be known.
with knowing the order of binding, i'm sure there would not be to much
work in sorting out the spring problem.
I don't know the process that the manufacturers use for making lock, and i
don't know if my idea would work as i can not try it out.
If u have any links on lock manufacturing, could u post a link.
I like your idea Shrub, have you tried it yet?

[Shrub]

If the locks were intentionally made with the holes out of line they would be very easy to pick and bumping wouldnt be an issue,

Its not my idea on the anti bump locks, its the commercial solution and yes it works.

Bumping isnt picking and for cheap and easy locks has no place imho, it does come into its own on thing like the MTL interactive etc though,

[Raccoon]

The trick to finding a solution to bump-proofing locks, is finding a solution that can be retrofitted on the existing hundred billion locks already installed on doors world wide. Good luck saying "I invented a bump-proof lock" and trying to convince the world to completely replace their 100 billion locks.

The most affordable solution would be special replacement pins. TOOOL suggests that magnetic pins make a lock bump-proof, so I think we have a solution. Find someone to manufacture hardened steel magnetic pins. Perhaps steel pins with neodymium cores, or steel pins with a neodymium wafer on top of the driver pin to magnetize the steel pins.

[Temple]

Yes magnetic pins would seem to be a cheap, compared to a whole new lock, retro fit for locks already in the consumers homes and businesses good idea Raccoon.

As a quick side note I may disagree but I do respect your opinion and concerns Kaotik, and now I too will leave this subject alone.

[pradselost]

My original comment was that I diagreed with a connection between bumping being allowed into the knowledge of the public and the 9-11 events. I stand by that...there is no logical course in that. However, if you're talking about a relevance between the security concerns brought in by 9-11 and a more palpable concern about the issue of bumpkeying? I can see the logical trail there slightly more.

In my opinion, it remains the case that the average american will not be scared into purchasing a lock over 200 dollars. Fact is, I have to pay for high priced gas, ridiculous insurance, student loans, expensive rent, and god knows what else. I'm fairly sure that most americans feel the same way. Criminals? Sure, slightly concerned. Terrorists? They're elsewhere, and couldn't give a lesser care about what's in my house. ;p

The only effect that a cumulative bumpkey - 9/11 connection could make is that higher profile targets try to lock down their security tighter, but I doubt it will even take place in that event...there have been several documented cases of people smuggling things through airport security and that's been so-called "locked down". Fact is, that form of security doesn't work against a determined attacker. Just an opinion though.

[LockNewbie21]

Well Bumping really isn't that big of a risk CONSIDERING! That yea if a criminal did somehow manage to snag or make one he could possibly use it correctly and bypass a lock but! this in it self would probobly deter a thief because making a good one by hand requires time paitence knowledge.. which doesn't fall under your average thiefs capability, not to mention bumping a lock makes noise another enemey of a thief.. meaning if there going to make noise they want a garentee, meaning smash a window ...noise? you betcha, but there it is, in and out. bumping a lock makes noise probobly smimilar to just plian knocking on the door, so basically bumping a lcok on a house... you might as well just knock , As stated many times in here thieves are mostly idiots looking to pawn a TV because there on drugs(comical generalization) , they could carless of how a lock works going to the trouble of getting/ making a bump key then learning to use it to work 90% of the time, then the picture of mr. splinter cell standing in front of a door for a bit ,tap tap tapping away, its humorous and stupid... hense thief thinks window plus brick equals smash, its a 100% garentee and easy.. bricks are not really a high security item to procure, or a boot, hammer, crowbar, just use your imagination. Lockpicking is the last thing And Lockpicking and bumping its just inflated by press, hollywood, video games to look cool,sleek and crafty or just to make a story to make people go NOOOO!! i'm not safe! Just typical political propaganda, same as wars and health care In a nutshell Bumping+ Criminal = Idiot dressed in black standing in front of a door tapping away. Brick+ criminal= majority, i don't care were you live, this is the very very vast majority or thieves. lol I am sick of typing this thread should just be closed its going downt he Theives don't pick locks catagory.......


Andy

[p1ckf1sh]

As stated many times in here thieves are mostly idiots looking to pawn a TV because there on drugs(comical generalization) , they could carless of how a lock works going to the trouble of getting/ making a bump key then learning to use it to work 90% of the time,
[...]
i don't care were you live, this is the very very vast majority or thieves. lol I am sick of typing this thread should just be closed its going downt he Theives don't pick locks catagory.......

This could very well be a statistical problem. An example: Here in Germany police is proud that they are solving more than 95% of all murder cases. Now, a murder case starts with a dead person, and if I was trying to kill someone I will try not to get caught, therefore make it look like an accident, suicide or something like that. So quire possibly there are lots of murder cass that don't get recognize as such firsthand, therefore not making it into the statistic.

Now, in our case, it might be that all those brick-throwing, crowbar-wielding burglars are just so drugged up that they get caught most of the time. What if someone with really good skills used those to gain access to some business, steal valuables and leave the crime scene with no trace of burglary whatsoever? What will happen? If the theft is obvious, the owner will suspect some employee, current or former, used a legit or illegit key to gain entry and rip the place off. No trace, no burglary. Therefore no investigation and most likely no one will ever be prosecuted for this crime.

I am just playing devil's advocate here, because I think your point is mostly valid in a large number of cases. But things are not black and white in real life, not all burglars are gifted with IQs around room temperature, and those who are good in locks will be "successful" in their business, meaning they can have a long career without being caught. Just something to think about. (And don't limit this to bumping... I have never had a real Kwikset in my hands, but from what I have read about them here I could probably pick one in 60 seconds or less, and I only took up picking in Feb this year. That's a no noise, no damage entry - ideal conditions for a criminal.)

[Kaotik]

Understood and point taken, and i have nothing but respect for all of you associated with LP101.

Please don't take my opinion as a harsh argumentative statement.