Some lock explainations for you to download

[n2oah]

The files below contain pictures and an explaination of the Corbin Emhart lock, the EVVA MCS, 3KS, and DUAL. I'll write some more when I have time.
http://www.freewebs.com/ag3ntddr/Emhart.rar
http://www.freewebs.com/ag3ntddr/MCS.rar
http://www.freewebs.com/ag3ntddr/3KS.rar
http://www.freewebs.com/ag3ntddr/DUAL.rar
I noticed the photos got grainy when I uploaded them. Please leave feedback about the files.

[mh]

I have two comments:

1) The Austrian locks will become seasick from being pictured upside down

2) GREAT WORK! Thanks a lot!

---
And then some more on the MCS:
You mention
29 x 10^24
key differs.

While EVVA claims either
299 x 10^24 or
299 x 10^15,
I believe it's the lower of these (still high enough ), see
viewtopic.php?t=11912

Do you know more details about this:
"Evva’s magnetization technology allows them to use 8 different magnetic orientations within the same magnet"
I would think it's rather 2 different magnetic orientations within the same magnet, one for each side. IMHO, more complicated distribution of magnetic fields don't make sense.

And finally just a small typo: In
"Below is a picture of the MCS cutaway after a 90 degree rotation of the key." that would be 180 degrees.
---

In total - excellent! Do make more of these!

Cheers,
mh

[UWSDWF]

Goodjob Mr. Holzman

[n2oah]

The number of key differs was taken from LSS. Files on the Fichet 787 and 480 are coming as soon as I get the 787 open.

[MacGyver101]

Fantastic photos and info: thank you very much!

One small suggestion, on the MCS:

Evva’s magnetization technology allows them to use 8 different magnetic orientations within the same magnet.

From looking at the patent (US Patent #4,686,841), it appears that the magnetic discs are divided into two halves: half the disc, as seen from above, is North and the other half is South. The (physically identical) magnets are mounted on the key in one of eight orientations (think of a clock with only 8 hours on it, instead of 12) -- and there are eight different types of magnetic tumbler, corresponding to the eight possible key orientations (e.g., North at 0-degrees, North at 45-degrees, North at 90-degrees, etc..). So, each individual magnet has only one magnetic orientation within itself... but its "code" is determined by which 45-degree offset it's rotated to.

[n2oah]

I'll look into the MCS corrections. I have read the MCS article in LSS over and over, but I still don't get the thing. I started writing the 787 article last night, and I have pictures taken for the 480 article. I also managed to get a miwa 3800 apart (and I broke a truarc ring ) and I shot some photos of the 3800.

[mh]

From looking at the patent (US Patent #4,686,841), it appears that the magnetic discs are divided into two halves: half the disc, as seen from above, is North and the other half is South. The (physically identical) magnets are mounted on the key in one of eight orientations ...

Did you find the "8 orientations" part somewhere? I'm asking, because they could actually use more, if the keyspace ever runs out... That's because the notch on the rotors is way less than 45 degrees wide.

I'll look into the MCS corrections. I have read the MCS article in LSS over and over, but I still don't get the thing.

Unfortunately, I do not have LSS, but it seems that there is at least a small mistake with the number of key differs. Not that it matters, looking at quadrillions...
What do you mean with "still don't get the thing"?

Cheers,
mh

BTW, I love the word "said" in patent claims - "said key inserted into said lock, contacting said pins..." It's fun to read them, as long as it's only one per week... Can't imagine working at a patent office or attorney.

[MacGyver101]

Did you find the "8 orientations" part somewhere? I'm asking, because they could actually use more, if the keyspace ever runs out... That's because the notch on the rotors is way less than 45 degrees wide.

They have a second patent, on the entire cylinder assembly -- but I can't seem to find the patent number right now. (It wasn't #4665726, but it was related.) While the notch itself is smaller than 45 degrees, it lines up with the eight little triagular cut-outs that you can see in n2oah's photographs. I suspect that there's an issue of manufacturing tolerances and magnetic field strength that would set an upper limit on the magnetic tumbler's "resolution" -- and eight may very well be close to the maximum.

[n2oah]

I don't have LSS in front of me right now, but I recall that it says the rotations can be very precise, and the magnets are pretty powerful. I don't recall how powerful they are, but they take 6,000 gauss to erase the magnetic data.

[mh]

Did you find the "8 orientations" part somewhere? I'm asking, because they could actually use more, if the keyspace ever runs out... That's because the notch on the rotors is way less than 45 degrees wide.

They have a second patent, on the entire cylinder assembly -- but I can't seem to find the patent number right now. (It wasn't #4665726, but it was related.) While the notch itself is smaller than 45 degrees, it lines up with the eight little triagular cut-outs that you can see in n2oah's photographs. I suspect that there's an issue of manufacturing tolerances and magnetic field strength that would set an upper limit on the magnetic tumbler's "resolution" -- and eight may very well be close to the maximum.

I made the same observations, looking closely a 8 of these rotors -
however, I think that you could still mount the plastic wheel with the triagular cut-outs on the magnet in more angles than just 45 degree steps, without many tolerance issues.
Tolerance issues are quite different from those in pin tumbler or wafer locks anyway, more comparable to safe locks with wheels and gates.

My point is that they wouldn't need to change anything in terms of shape or dimensions of the gates or "fence"/sidebar, just add more angles between magnets and plastic rotors.
And the patent you found describes nicely why the aligment of the rotors with the correct key is so precise - friction etc.

So again, if the keyspace would ever run out...

Cheers,
mh

[unbreakable]

Just to let you know, the pictures on the main page for the Emhart and The Evva (bottom row) are backwards.
http://agentddr999.googlepages.com/home

Unbreakable

[n2oah]

Just to let you know, the pictures on the main page for the Emhart and The Evva (bottom row) are backwards.
http://agentddr999.googlepages.com/home

Unbreakable

Yea, I saw that. Google Page's editor is not the best for formatting.

[lockedin]

awww--- the bandwidth is now exceeded at the links you posted.

[n2oah]

awww--- the bandwidth is now exceeded at the links you posted.

The exact same explanations are posted at my google page.

[greyman]

n2oah, thanks again for some interesting pictures (I looked at your webpage material but not the original rar files, since the download is blocked

I wonder if someone has info on the magnets used in the EVVA MCS key, rather than the tumblers (the patent ref posted before deals with this). I still don't quite understand how EVVA gets two polarities, one on each side of the key, that are not just magnetic opposites. Any info on this much appreciated.