Legal: Lockout services and accidental B&E.

[dskippy]

So I've been wondering, if you provide a lockout service, how do you know if the person who hired you actually lives in the place that you're breaking into on their behalf? I suppose it's possible if I wanted to break into someone's house and steal their stuff I could hire a locksmith and tell him I've been lockout of the house. Do locksmiths gaurd themselves from such things? What is the law regarding a locksmith breaking into a building that he's not permited to enter by the owner but has been put up to it by someone else?

[Shrub]

Well its classed as breaking and entering,

There are many things you can do, ask them whats in the draw just inside the hallway or such like and if its not true simply shut the door again,

Grab any reg details from a car they may be in or simply get them to sign somthing,

Personally you get you get a feeling if the person is legit or not,

You should also have insurance but whether that covers such an instance you would have to check up on,

Use your common sence and all will be ok,

[parapilot]

Not sure if a thief would pay £60 - 100 for a locksmith when he could use a brick free of charge. People call locksmiths when they want to get in with minimal damage, something a thief wouldn't care about.

[yng_pick]

I know one of the concerns is of ex husbands/wifes (or separated)- who are not allowed back in the house, and the locks have been changed. some are crafy, and convincing, and will call for lock outs, saying they have lost their keys during the day (so they dont have to answer for thrown deadbolts)...

and of course, their ID says the address.

on a side note- we have a lot of elderly, and we occasionally have problems with alzheimers patients- who call for rekeys, when it is often relatives trying to ensure they don't leave the house. it is often pretty obvious when they are in the house, and they have a double cylinder deadbolt keeping them in..

we had one gentleman who had us make keys to his liquor cabinet about 3 times.. before his daughter called and asked us not to lol. she was apparently confiscating them.

generally we ask for some sort of identification if it looks fishy, though with the majority of lockouts are just performed.

[Shrub]

They are the funny ones, the wife calls for a lock change, the hubby calls for a entry and lock change then the wife calls again for a entry and lock change, all within the same week, you then ask whos supposed to live in the house and you get the same answer from both people, 'I am' lol

[Raccoon]

Yeah. ID Card or other form of registration is easy enough to match a person to a place.

I'm afraid if I ever got into a husband/wife situation like that, I'd write it steady work and steady pay. Until one of them provides a court order of restraint, both of them have permission to be there. Getting "kicked out" of the house isn't necessarily legally binding.

[yng_pick]

I'd have to agree.

We generally feel out the situation.
If the guy comes in, and asks if we will do it, then explains that he has to do it between 12-1 pm, and he just needs a key made to the door- then it starts to be iffy.

But with a lot of these people- they go on to explain too much. They tell us that they need to get it done, but they are not supposed to be there- makes it easy to say no..

Uh, if your not supposed to be their, why do you think we will assist you -in- being there?


Another story- A rather well off man had come in- he had filed for divorce.. and put off changing locks, for about a week..

His wife came to the house, with friends and a moving truck, and relieved the house of in excess of 100,000 in antique furniture.

He of course had us change his locks, slap some medeco on, etc-
hard to feel sorry, cause perhaps she had bought a good deal of it her self? and he was rather well off, and did not seem to overly distraught.

but it was a little shocking to hear

[Raccoon]

Another I forgot to mention. Rather than opening a door for someone without identification-- asking them to provide some arbitrary proof of "knowing the place"-- I will ask that we talk to a neighbor to verify their right to enter. A neighbor will also be privvy to fights and divorse, so don't hesitate to knock on other people's doors. You're not /bothering/ them, and they will feel more secure knowing that you took the time to follow up on a story that could have easily been fake.

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[Varjeal]

As others have said, asking questions is key, as well as using good common sense and gut insticts. Simple non-threatening evasive questions can yield very good results.

[Dimmy Locks]

I think every locksmith has been involved in domestic disputes where both parties have changed locks/ re changed locks. Its a good earner to be called back to same property to effect entry and change locks.

1 callout I particulary remember was the chap calling me out because he had "left his spare keys inside" and so there I was, on my knees picking his sash dead lock when a a squeal of tyres and an authoritive voice shouting STOP!! drew my attention to 3 transit buses full of police pulling up at the gate.

A policeman demanded to know who I was and what I was doing, considering I was wearing a hi~vis coat and my clearly marked locksmith van was at the kerbside I had to mentally question his powers of observation.

It turns out the chap was too embarrassed to explain his wife had had the locks changed while he was at work. Police finally discovered that the wife objected to a court ruling that hubby got residency and she was now living in a flat nearby but thought if she wasnt able to live in the matriminial home, neither should hubby.

RE: checking callout is for homeowner or burglar, many homeowners that are locked out dont have forms of ID on them, afterall, who grabs their driving licence while putting the rubbish out? 1 tip is to call the telephone number that the "owner" gave you on the original callout enquiry. Call it outside the property and see if you can hear the fone ringing in the house. Alternatively ask them something about decor/items in the home. Although its possible that they have "scoped" the property out, its unlikely they expect you to ask " where in the kitchen is your fridge located". Hesitation in the answer should raise a concern.

[raimundo]

Also, you could look for the person in the photos over the mantlepiece, ask about that before you open it up. But photos of anyone who has lived in a place should be there unless there is somthing abnormal about it. If you got in get paid and then can't find the photos, you can report it as suspicious, and you might even take a picture of the client.

[Shrub]

If you want to get really picky you can ask what brand of butter they use, what cerials they eat and what biscuits they buy then simply look in the bin for the wrappers,

Its realy not a problem, you have an instinct for such things and as said someone not on the up and up will not be calling and paying a lockie to come out,

[Raccoon]

Guys. I have to voice my deepest concerns here.

You should NEVER open a home to someone with the objective of identifying them later. Location of decor items, pictures over the mantle, brands of butter-- not only is this HIGHLY unprofessional, it's ineffective.

The second you open a door to someone, they can enter, close the door, lock it, point a shot gun at the door, rape and murder the people inside.

You might consider that you'll enter the home first, and ask the customer to wait outside. THIS is not going to happen. It is not only unprofessional, but is a huge liability. Not only did you open a door that you shouldn't have, but you entered the home and are now responsible for breaking AND entering. And if by chance the customer was being honest, they could easily turn around and accuse you of pocketing a priceless heirloom.

NEVER, EVER, EVER, open a door unless you are absolutely certain of the customer's right to be there. Never enter the home, ever, period. You unlock the door and allow the customer to swing it open and enter. You stand outside unless invited in.

Calling the phone number that the customer called you from, so that you can ring it? Uh... the phone inside the house is NOT going to ring. If they called you from INSIDE the house, after they locked themselves out, I hope they would have unlocked the doors after hanging up with you.

If you have a customer that has no identification on them, walk that customer to their neighbor’s house. Even if it's at 2AM, the neighbor will be understanding (with you, at least). If there is even the slightest doubt about a home entry, CALL THE POLICE! The police are HAPPY and EAGER to assist in supervising a lockout.

[Shrub]

Well we have our bins outside,

[Raccoon]

Oh.. looking through their trash. I guess if that situation is possible.. but many people drag their trash out the night before pickup, to keep raccoons at bay , or have a shared dumpster for the apartment/condo complex.