Monster of a lock from Italy

[greyman]

I just got back from a holiday in Italy Really hot weather though. I saw absolutely heaps of double-bitted key double-turn or better locks, mostly cisa but also Mottura and other brands. Plenty of Mottura pump key locks too. Dimple key locks are catching on in Italy and they seem to deal with EVVA also.

[Anziano Jackson]

Yeah:D. I lived in Italy for 2 years (that's where I got my username) and I moved to a lot of different appartments. I really liked those locks, but I have no idea how they would work. I thought of buying 2 weeks ago (I went back to visit friends) and I can't figure out the key. You notice that the cuts are at 90 degree angles, not slanted like tumblers. It has to be some weird warded lock or something. By the way, if any of you want to pick one, you usually have to turn the cylander about 3 full turns.

[mh]

I really liked those locks, but I have no idea how they would work. I thought of buying 2 weeks ago (I went back to visit friends) and I can't figure out the key. You notice that the cuts are at 90 degree angles, not slanted like tumblers.

I believe they are just plain 'simple' lever locks.
mh

[n2oah]

I really liked those locks, but I have no idea how they would work. I thought of buying 2 weeks ago (I went back to visit friends) and I can't figure out the key. You notice that the cuts are at 90 degree angles, not slanted like tumblers.

I believe they are just plain 'simple' lever locks.
mh

My Cisa 57110 has a partition ward in the middle and 3 levers on each side of the ward.

[cL4y]

now thats a biga locka!
wierd too.

[greyman]

Has anyone ever seen a 3 in 1 pick for Italian lever locks? I mean a coaxial pick with two sleeves around an inner rod with three bits at the end, one for each "axle"? You would tension the bolt with the middle sleeve and manipulate the back and front levers with the inner rod and outer sleeve.

[Anziano Jackson]

Maybe. Can you find a picture of it?

[greyman]

That's my point! I haven't seen a picture of one. I've looked through lots of online lock shop catalogues but I can only see 2 in 1 (wheel) picks. Maybe a european lockie can help?

[cbuk2k]

I don’t think that a three in one pick would be strong enough; you would have to produce a cross between a curtain pick and a two in one. As the external diameter of the pick is fixed (to fit in the key way) increasing the number of sleeves/tubes means decreasing the wall thickness. The bolt thrower needs to be fairly sturdy so this limits it further.
To get a decent quality weld you’d probably be better off starting with a round section welding the bit in place and boring it out. I have had a couple of attempts to weld something really thin and it’s not easy. The second bit for manipulating the levers would also have to be offset to reach the furthest back lever. Belo is a badly drawn pic of what I’m saying.

[greyman]

cbuk2k, that is a nice picture. You are probably right about the strength of materials. The Italian lever locks have quite strong springs on the tumblers, so to hold the levers in a picked position would require quite a bit of tension on the bolt. Perhaps it is easier to make a tensioning tool and pick the levers manually, then you could apply the required tension. The other problem I see is that many of these locks require two turns of the key with the bolt having to pass through 4 separate gates. If picking it once sounds hard, then picking it 4 times in a row sounds a lot worse

[Schuyler]

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfis ... ezop63.htm

An incredible breakdown of this type of lock, as linked in the "interesting locks" thread. It is very susceptible to DE.

[greyman]

Thanks for that link - I think I've seen it on another thread somewhere. I think if you're prepared to use that level of force, there aren't a lot of locks that would stand up to it (eg sledge hammer). The question however is how easy are they for NDE?

[n2oah]

Thanks for that link - I think I've seen it on another thread somewhere.

Yup, it's been posted here before.

[lockedin]

I've never seen it. Thanks for that.

[alex20005uk]

I just came back from Kiev in Ukraine, and my god the doors there are hardcore, they all have like a 3 turn deadbolt mechanism and all the apartments have padded steel doors - scary as hell

That lock looks immense! can people actually pick that? is it possible? I mean i just started picking, but interested to know how long it would take an experienced person to do something like that