Trouble with Schlage

[darrel.h]

Do they put security pins in Schlages? If they do, that explains why I havn't been able to pick mine......

[Bud Wiser]

This is my favorite lock so far because it is of good quality, I can hear the pins. It is difficult but not too difficult! I can pick it, but still not consistantly.

I am still not sure what the correct order of pics are. I check the usual way, feel each pin to see which gives the greatest resistance, then the next, remembering the order, and then proceed to pick each pin in that order. Yet I can not always get it. WHen I do get it, it's in 2-3 minutes now! So I know it can't be that hard. It's still a very challenging lock for beginners like me!

[kepiblanc]

Do they put security pins in Schlages? If they do, that explains why I havn't been able to pick mine......

I'm firmly convinced that every Schlage lock cylinder has anti-pick top pins.

I own a transparent five pin lock cylinder, made of hard plastic, which has anti-pick top pins and a Schlage keyway. It is made by Unlock Technologies in San Jose, California. I got it from Southord; the part number is ST-34. This cylinder is great because it allows one to see how anti-pick top pins can be defeated. It's simply a matter of pushing each and every bottom pin above the shear line, and then letting them drop back to the shear line.

[LockNewbie21]

Residential has a spool in chambers 2&3

Comercial or double locking deadbolts have four in that last chambers


They make no real diffrence, the tollernces suck so i pick them half the time without getting a false set.

The Primus is a diffrent story, never had the presure to try one.

[sturmgrenadier]

When I started picking a couple months ago, I picked up a double pack of Schlage Lock Cylinders from my local Ace Hardware store. THe pakage said that they were rated 'ANSI Level 2' (not sure if the grade given by this sanctioning body is worth a darn). As it turns out, both of the lock cylinders had regular first driver pins, but spools for the remaining four driver pins.
Since I practied primarily on these, I want to believe that these 'security' pins are the reasons for my lack of picking success, but I think my trouble with feeling the binding pin is a more basic problem that I encounter when picking regular pins, too. Oh well. I can still open my Master No.1 Padlocks with some regularity, but to paraphrase what Bud Wiser said in an earlier post, it's frustrating to no understand why the lock opens when it does.

Question: I've used the search engine here on LP101 tot ry to find the answer, but haven't found it conclusively. A friend of mine has a deadbolt on his front door that reads 'Titan' on the front. He says that he picked the lock up from a local hardware store in 2002. Is 'Titan' a name used by more than one lock manufacturer? I read on one thread that Kwikset bought a company called 'Titan' several years ago and basically made it their UltraMAx (highest security) residential line of locks. But other threads, I've read refer to 'Titan' as only being the name of a model and not the name of the actual manufacturer. Anyway, my pal wants to know what kind of lock he has, how secure it is, and whehter it has 'security pins' (I explained to thim what they are) without uninstalling it. So can any one tell me? If the lock has 'Titan' engraved on it, does that mean it is the line of locks bought out by 'Kwikset'? Are they a joke like other Kwikset locks?

Oh and thanks for the guided tour of Windsor and Toronto, Ontario fellow posters. I enjoyed this form of pseudo-vicarious experience and I suspect I learned a few things that I would not have gleaned from reading a copy of Frommer's at my local Border's store. Oh, to be ypung man again......

[LockNewbie21]

Na i think titan is a certain kwickset, like i guess they use the BIG BAD GRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! name to make oyu think.. jeez this locks pretty good it says titan so it must be good

[sturmgrenadier]

LockNewbie21, Thanks for the intel. Yeah, joking aside (I laughed at your line), I bet at some level many people are subconsciuosly affected by superficial labels such as 'impressive product names' in their buying habits even though they don't realize it. These marketing gurus have it down to the proverbial science. If I had gone into my local hardware store a few months ago, when I knew absolutely nothing about locks, and had seen Schlage, Kwikset and Titan locks on the shelf, I can tell you right now that this Master Degree (probably in general foolery) wielding, well-read idiot would have picked the last on that list. After all, it would be a TITAN!!!! Thanks LN21.

[Bud Wiser]

I have a Titan on our front door (not bragging). I bought it a few years ago at a local retail chain. I new enough that Kwikset was the cheapest, but had no idea at the time Titan was Kwikset. In fact I'm not sure if it was at the time. Did kwikset simply buy them out?

Any way level 2 is suppose to be a designation for security level, meaning moderate security. :evel one would be the best.

Here is a link to a modern Titan lock, missing is the word Titan stamped on it. Mine says Titan on it. So I'm sure mine is better;)
http://www.azpartsmaster.com/shopazp/De ... %29%2Ehtml

Also, does any one know if Black & Decker owns kwikset?

[kepiblanc]

Question: I've used the search engine here on LP101 tot ry to find the answer, but haven't found it conclusively. A friend of mine has a deadbolt on his front door that reads 'Titan' on the front. He says that he picked the lock up from a local hardware store in 2002. Is 'Titan' a name used by more than one lock manufacturer? I read on one thread that Kwikset bought a company called 'Titan' several years ago and basically made it their UltraMAx (highest security) residential line of locks. But other threads, I've read refer to 'Titan' as only being the name of a model and not the name of the actual manufacturer. Anyway, my pal wants to know what kind of lock he has, how secure it is, and whehter it has 'security pins' (I explained to thim what they are) without uninstalling it. So can any one tell me? If the lock has 'Titan' engraved on it, does that mean it is the line of locks bought out by 'Kwikset'? Are they a joke like other Kwikset locks?

sturmgrenadier,

"Titan" was a brand name once used by just Kwikset alone. It was a particular product line of locksets produced by Kwikset. Here is a direct quote from the Kwikset Corporate website's company history timeline:

1992 – After 40 years of leading the market in opening price point locksets for residential construction, Kwikset develops its higher-quality, high-security Titan product line. Targeted to sophisticated consumers demanding high quality in every purchased product, the Titan line is heralded with an aggressive marketing program and a new corporate direction.

In 2002, it was decided that it would be the last year of the Titan's production run. Here is another direct quote from the Kwikset Corporate website's company history timeline which refers to this:

2002 – Kwikset undergoes an initiative offering new products and features such as Kwik-Install™. This revolutionary feature makes installation virtually flawless with pre-installed screws. Kwikset also reorganizes its product offering into three new brands. The brands are Kwikset Security®, Kwikset Maximum Security® and Kwikset UltraMax Security®, presenting the consumer with a move-up strategy. The Titan product line is re-branded to the UltraMax product line.

I have past experience with picking, disassembling, and reassembling Titan locksets and cylinders. I can attest to the fact that although Titans were made with six pin cylinders rather than five, I never found one with even a single solitary security top pin whatsoever. As for picking them, they became about as easy for me to pick as the five pin Kwikset cylinders. Despite the brand name which borrows from those immense deities of ancient Greek and Roman mythology, to suggest strength and power to the consumer I would guess, Kwikset's Titan line of locksets have always indeed been a joke.

The very first lock cylinder that I ever successfully picked open with my Southord lock picking snap gun (Southord part number: LAT-17) was actually a Titan. As I applied light torque with its included tension tool, it only took me three pulls of the trigger to do this. Beginner's luck aside, it is surely possible for others to do likewise if they keep trying long enough.

In case anybody is wondering about snap guns, they do actually work. One just needs to either be shown how they work, as I was, or just suss it for oneself, which ostensibly should not be too difficult after reading the included direction sheet, and then having a go at it. Here's a quote regarding them from Southord's website:

"The snap gun was developed decades ago to allow police officers who were not skilled in the art of lock picking to open locks with minimal instruction. Rather than opening locks by the traditional raking techniques, a snap gun uses a primary law of physics, the transfer of energy, to compromise locks."

[Bud Wiser]

This is too good... I replaced a kwikset on our front door with the Titan! In all fairness, as easy as Titan may be for most of us to pick, it is a step better then the 5 pin quiksets that you can practically blow in to pick open

[kepiblanc]

I have a Titan on our front door (not bragging). I bought it a few years ago at a local retail chain. I new enough that Kwikset was the cheapest, but had no idea at the time Titan was Kwikset. In fact I'm not sure if it was at the time. Did kwikset simply buy them out?

Also, does any one know if Black & Decker owns kwikset?

Bud Wiser,

Kwikset simply developed and marketed the Titan brand name lockset from 1992 through 2002, and then discontinued it. There are still loads of retailers who sell Titan locksets to this day however.

Black & Decker does in fact own Kwikset. The Kwikset website tells the reader that this corporate acquisition occurred in 1989.

[zeke79]

FWIW, there are still many many aftermarket schlage keyway locks out there that are NOT keyed with any security pins .

[kepiblanc]

FWIW, there are still many many aftermarket schlage keyway locks out there that are NOT keyed with any security pins .

zeke79,

You are correct. Such an example is a manufacturer named Ilco. I have a five pin rim-mortise cylinder made by them. Although the key for it looks just like a Schlage, this one picks open rather easily.

[zeke79]

Yes, Ilco and if I recall correctly US Lock make a knock off to that picks easily. It may be an ilco cylinder too though that they buy for their locks as they include them with their hardware as others do not. US Locks does make pretty good stuff for grade 2 hardware though in my opinion. That is for the lever sets and deadbolt assemblies themselves. The cylinders themselves may be junk, but they can be changed out easily.

[Bud Wiser]

... but to paraphrase what Bud Wiser said in an earlier post, it's frustrating to no understand why the lock opens when it does.

I'm still a noob here but I do have a number of different locks I practice on. While I'm still not comfortable with schlage or other security locks, I have picked the schlage by sheer luck I'm sure.

What I'm seeing though is every lock is different! Some are too easy to pick and others require trial and error. The right amount of tension, finding the right pin to set first! On pad locks, the cheaper brands are great to practice this technique on. They are also great moral boosters too

I'm getting to the point where I do feel more comfortable with non security locks. I don't feel I'm playing in the dark. I have a technique and it works. First I find the right amount of tension, then I find the pin that gives the greatest resistance to setting and that's the one I try to set first. Then I go to the next hardest pin. This process is pretty much a given! The lock will open. If it does not open it's because I have one or more pins binding, and or using too much tension. On some locks I know I set all the pins but it doesn't pop open, if I ease off just a little bit on the tension, it opens. Some locks make it difficult to use the tension and pick because the keyway is so small. The tension wrench gets in the way if the main pin I need to set first is in the middle! It requires a little more work even though it's a easy lock to pick.

Where I'm going with all this is you should practice on more locks. If all I had was my schlage I probably would have given up a month ago! But having more locks to play with has shown me that while yes I do have a ways to go for sure, at least I know I have some understanding and am able to duplicate a process to open locks. You should definitely practice on more locks! I think you will find the frustration is less knowing that you can at least pick lesser locks with consistancy and know why it happens and even know when it will happen just before it does! The schlage frustrates me because I'm not there yet with it. And I'm not happy picking it by pot luck