A question about some frustrating pins

[ericm115]

Right, so I have one of these: in the two inch, 5 pin variety.

It gave me all sorts of heartbreak for a long time so i eventually made a cutaway. I dont have a camera to take a picture of it though.

So let me describe the routine to picking it so that you can understand my question. It may be a bit hard to describe but I hope you can follow.

Pins 1,3,4,5 are spools and pin2 is solid. The bottom pins are solid.

Pin1 is the obvious first to set. Pin3 is next. They both set easily. I now have an option. Pin2 and Pin5 both bind. If I pick pin2, the solid pin, the plug turns and binds the spooled pin4 and pin5. The spools here are tough too.
As a side note: I have one of these: in the two inch, six pin variety. pins 1,3,4,5,6 are all spools. They are easy spools though. When they bind and you press against them, you can feel a small bit of backwards force in the tensioner if you are careful. I can pick this lock consistently in less than 45 seconds. So back to the lock at hand (the brass one), this lock has really tough spools. There is no detectable backwards rotational force in the plug when pressing a bound spool. It just eventually sets with a small pop. That's why I don't want to pick pin2 next up, because pins 4 and 5 will be hard to set.

So I pick pin 5 next. Pin2 should be the obvious next candidate. It doesnt bind anymore though! Here's why: in setting pin5, pin3 wriggled its way down _just_ enough to block the shearline again. So I press the loose bottom pin3 and tap the top pin back up with a little pop. I then set pin2.

I go to set pin 4 but it's not binding! Again, pin3 has wriggled down. I pop it up again. I also have to pop pin5 this time though. They both have nestled down into the path of the plug slightly on the shear line. So I set pin 4.

They are all set but it doesn't open. Why? Of course, I have to pop pin2 and pin 3 again, and on "popping" pin4 it magically opens.

This isn't some inconsist thing either. It happens exactly like this every single time. I can't get it to open any other way. Watching the pins though and going through the routine carefully, I can consistently pick it in 30 seconds. With my eyes closed, its much, much longer than this. I would never have been able to get it if I hadn't made it into a cutaway.

My question is this: Have you guys ever encountered this before? It's incredibly frustrating when you have to go back and pop each pin every time. They are totally set, then wriggle down to barely blocking the line. Could i have caused this in making my cutaway? If this is normal in the field, I have a long way to go...

em

[Octillion]

In picking, stuff like that will happen. Picking one pin to the sheer line may result in others falling back down. There is nothing left to do, but go back and set those pins back above the sheer line. Have patience, and continue to practice to know how to feel out pins to tell if they are set or not.

As far as your cutaway, I would not practice with that. The cuts in the cutaway are going to cause pins to react with the sides of the lock differently as you try and pick, so it may feel different than an unaltered lock.

[pinsetter]

I find that what you are describing happens frequently when dealing with security pins. It will even happen with standard pins at times. You know, I've seen a lot of tutorials on lockpicking and they ALL seem to miss or barely skim an important aspect of picking. The tutorials say something similar to "Apply tension to the plug and feel for the binding pin and pick that pin then move on to the next binding pin." Well, in my opinion this isn't technically correct. Of course you're going to be feeling for binding pins and setting them, but what then happens when you set the pins and then another pin picked out of order unsets the pins you've already picked? There are several factors that can cause this. Among them: Drilling of the pin chambers, inconsistent pin diameters, and, especially on used locks, worn parts.

Here is what I think all tutorials should tell you:

"The most important thing in picking a lock is determining the correct binding order of the pins that will allow the pins to set in succession, one after the other, with minimal or no unsetting of previously set pins."

So you turn the lock into a puzzle. The main thing here that will help you is your memory of what you've done. You need to set pins, re-check what you've done, and if the pins have dropped, you need to try a different order. You do this until you get it right and all the pins are set. The better quality the lock, the harder this process will be to get right.

Anyway, what you are describing is the process for doing this. Spool pins can make the process a bit more difficult since you can get the lock into a false set then press a spool pin up that should have been correctly set earlier and drop a couple of other pins. It just takes practice.

Oh, and seriously, forget about looking at the cutaway and practice doing it by feel. I think cutaways can help, but they can also hinder progress in learning. Use the cutaway just long enough to associate what you are feeling to what you are seeing, then once you know the feel of a correct set, or think you do anyway, close your eyes and try picking the lock by feel only.

[CVScam]

The first few times I picked a lock that had more than one spool pin I had that same problem. I have a lock that is just almost impossible to pick counter clockwise at least 1 pin will drop when I lift the last spool pin. I then moved my tension wrench to the top of the cylinder and the different tension on the cylinder would keep the solid pins from dropping as I lifted the last spool. I sometimes try to just over lift the spools first then pick a few solid pins and see if the spools will drop into place.