Newbie question

[schumy]

Hello everyone,

I just started picking, and although i've been able to rake the wafer locks at work and pick my bike lock. I'm having trouble with a full size door lock.

I'm using a feeler, but i can't for the life of me find each pin individually. I move the pick around, and i randomly hit pins, but i can't go sequentially from back to front.

Any suggestions ??!?!

[Mothrog]

Follow digital blue's exercise:

viewtopic.php?t=10677

In stage one, you might try moving around the single pin position to get a feel for what different pins in different positions feel like so you can start to tell what's pin and what's everything else. Other then that, practice, practice, and more practice.

[schumy]

I don't know where to get a lock that i can take apart pin by pin... and that doesn't cost more than $10.

I wanted to start with that, but im limited to the hardware i've got lying around

[Aqua]

Picking locks which you rely on can have bad consequences. It can be very easy to permanently damage one. I advise you to buy a lock somewhere on the flee market, or simply look for one in your basement, or ask someone for locks to which they lost their keys or something.
Saying this, let's get back to the oryginal topic:

What kind of lock are you trying to pick? Could you take a photograph of the keyhole?

[Mothrog]

I don't know where to get a lock that i can take apart pin by pin... and that doesn't cost more than $10.

I wanted to start with that, but im limited to the hardware i've got lying around

You should check prices at your local hardware store on Kwikset deadbolts. They tend to be pretty cheap. If not, there's always eBay.

[schumy]

Picking locks which you rely on can have bad consequences. It can be very easy to permanently damage one.

That's why I'm picking locks that are not being used by anyone.

What kind of lock are you trying to pick? Could you take a photograph of the keyhole?

The one I'm trying to pick is a generic double sided key lock. No brand noting. I THINK there are 6 pins, but i may be wrong.

I would take a photo but it wouldn't help much since there is no markings whatsoever on the lock.

You should check prices at your local hardware store on Kwikset deadbolts

I was actually looking for one @ WalMart, but couldnt find anything. I'll go to some harware stores tomorrow. I hope i'll have better luck there.

[Mothrog]

When you say double sided key lock, do you mean something like this



but with two different assemblies you can put the key in? If you have a double cylinder lock, you can take it apart and get the pins out

[schumy]

When you say double sided key lock, do you mean something like this



but with two different assemblies you can put the key in? If you have a double cylinder lock, you can take it apart and get the pins out

Yep, that's similar to what i have (one on each side of the door).

PS: Is there any reason why I can't see the picture in your post? I see the tags with the link.

Cheers.[/img]

[Mothrog]

When you say double sided key lock, do you mean something like this



but with two different assemblies you can put the key in? If you have a double cylinder lock, you can take it apart and get the pins out

Yep, that's similar to what i have (one on each side of the door).

PS: Is there any reason why I can't see the picture in your post? I see the tags with the link.

Cheers.[/img]

Yeah, I can't see the image either. I'm guessing the board's software didn't like the lack of an extension at the end of the URL.

[schumy]

^^ i'll go around town and check for a cheap lock i can take apart.

How would you take apart the one in the picture, there ano screws nothing. Mind you i have yet to take it apart and check.

[Mothrog]

^^ i'll go around town and check for a cheap lock i can take apart.

How would you take apart the one in the picture, there ano screws nothing. Mind you i have yet to take it apart and check.

Here's a couple of guides on how to go about it:

http://www.kwikset.com/Trade/Literature ... Manual.pdf

http://www.gregmiller.net/locks/disassemble.html

Do note that it would be a very bad idea to try this your first time through on a lock you depend on. There's a lot that can go wrong, and if you can't figure out what to do to correct it, you may be without the service of your lock for a while.

Basically, the general idea is the plug (the part that rotates when you put the correct key in) is retained by something on the side opposite where you stick the key in. Usually, there's a threaded sleeve that fits over the back of the plug and is held in place by a pin. Push down the pin, screw off the sleeve, stick in your key, and you're set to remove the plug.

The other type you'll encounter (as discussed in the Kwikset rekeying guide) uses a retaining clip instead of a threaded sleeve. You just have to push the retaining clip out and you're good to go. They tell you to use their special little tool, but the same thing can be accomplished with needle nose pliers or any other tool with a couple points spread the right distance apart.

So, after you've got the retaining device out and you're key's in the lock, you want to remove the plug. Start off by rotating the key off to the side. It's generally a good idea to do this inside a ziploc bag or something similar in case you mess up and the top pins decide to fly out. Now, if you don't want to dump all the spring loaded top pins, you'll have to use something close to the diameter of the plug so that when you push the plug out, there's something to stop the spring loaded tops pins from flying everywhere. Usually a locksmith will use a tool called a plug follower, but appropriate sized doweling works well as does a pen cap of the right size. Now, using the plug follower, you push the plug from the back through the lock, making sure not to break contact as you go. Then, you should have your plug out of your lock.

To reassemble, just do the reverse. Remember when you're loading only one pin stack, you'll want to remove all the other top pins, as if you don't, the minute you put the plug back into the lock and rotate back to the lock position, you'll have a top pin and spring come flying into the plug to make your life difficult.

[Shrub]

Or you could use the guides from this site

Dont touch any lock you have in use, buy a separate practise lock,

[schumy]

Thank you Mothrog for the links.

I was able to take apart the lock (it's has the same setup as the Schalge) Now I've been picking for the past two hours up to three pins and I'm able to open the 3 pin configuration in less than 30 seconds. There is however a problem, I cannot get it to open if i pick from the back forward. If i pick from front to back, i have absolutely no problem, but i have yet to pick the 3 pin from the back to the front.

Any help

[Mothrog]

Thank you Mothrog for the links.

I was able to take apart the lock (it's has the same setup as the Schalge) Now I've been picking for the past two hours up to three pins and I'm able to open the 3 pin configuration in less than 30 seconds. There is however a problem, I cannot get it to open if i pick from the back forward. If i pick from front to back, i have absolutely no problem, but i have yet to pick the 3 pin from the back to the front.

Any help

You don't generally pick back to front or front to back. You have to pick on the basis of which pins bind first. If you think about what makes locks pickable, it's the fact that the holes drilled for the pins aren't in perfect alignment, so you get pins that bind. Which pin is going to bind first is a function of how far off each hole's alignment is, and, though wear patterns can alter this as the function gets used, pins aren't going to set in a perfect front to back or back to front sequence. Go here for more info on picking order.

viewtopic.php?t=542

[schumy]

You don't generally pick back to front or front to back. You have to pick on the basis of which pins bind first. If you think about what makes locks pickable, it's the fact that the holes drilled for the pins aren't in perfect alignment, so you get pins that bind. Which pin is going to bind first is a function of how far off each hole's alignment is, and, though wear patterns can alter this as the function gets used, pins aren't going to set in a perfect front to back or back to front sequence. Go here for more info on picking order.

viewtopic.php?t=542

Hmmm... I already went through that article, I should read more carefully next time.

Well, i found out what the problem was. When i lifted pin 1, pin 2 being much longer than 1 was also being liften a bit, thus passing the shear line.

I'll play a bit more with 3 pins and then repin it with 4