Chubb Detector

[unbreakable]

Are these locks or a spinoff of these locks still in production? How hard are they to pick?

here's a wiki on them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chubb_detector_lock

[Shrub]

They were only made until 1970 or maybe the late 60's some more may have been done as special order but as main production they were stopped,

Im not sure why maybe they didnt meet standards or were just too expensive to make i dont know,

There arent any modern standard mortice locks made by them that use the princible as far as i know.

[greyman]

Detector lever locks were also made during the 1970s I think. Picking them would be pretty difficult because of the detector. Once it's triggered, you have to start from scratch. The degree of lift needed to trigger the detector lever is only slightly more than a high lift lever. I think with practice you could do it with 2 in 1 picks made for the job but I am guessing. If the lock also had antipick notches, it would be very difficult.

[panalman]

Detector lever locks were also made during the 1970s I think. Picking them would be pretty difficult because of the detector. Once it's triggered, you have to start from scratch. The degree of lift needed to trigger the detector lever is only slightly more than a high lift lever. I think with practice you could do it with 2 in 1 picks made for the job but I am guessing. If the lock also had antipick notches, it would be very difficult.

I would take a wild guess and say the Chubb Detector lock was the modern equal of a lock with false notches within the levers and once triggered would need nothing more than a cut down key to reset the levers i.e. releasing tension on the bolt to allow the levers to drop to there given position.
Anyone who has one of these locks in there collection could verify this.

[Shrub]

No,

The detector needed the key to turn to the locked position to reset the detector,

[panalman]

No,

The detector needed the key to turn to the locked position to reset the detector,

Thanks Shrub.
Can you throw anymore information on the exact workings on this lock ie did every lock need the given key to reset the detector or was there a one off reset key for all?. And if it was such a great idea why is this type of lock no longer used?

[UWSDWF]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chubb_detector_lock

[Shrub]

There are various vintage lock sites This being one of them, this site will tell you more than i know about the Chubb detector lock,

[unbreakable]

There are various vintage lock sites This being one of them, this site will tell you more than i know about the Chubb detector lock,

oohh, excellent info there Shrub, thanks![/quote]

[greyman]

It's a simple idea but I'm sure it took Chubb years to perfect it. There is a detector lever at the back of the pack with a post on it. The post lies above the top edge of the rest of the lever pack. The detector lever has a hook on it and if it or any of the other levers are overlifted, the hook gets stuck on spring loaded catch. To release the detector, the bolt must be pushed a little way in the locking direction, which can only be done using the correct key since there are extra gates in the levers opposite the usual gates.

There's a write up of the detector lock in my book on high security locks. Intended publication mid 2007 in US (a bit later in UK/EU). Actually, I could only find a Tann detector lock for the pictures, but it's the same principle as the Chubb.

[panalman]

It's a simple idea but I'm sure it took Chubb years to perfect it. There is a detector lever at the back of the pack with a post on it. The post lies above the top edge of the rest of the lever pack. The detector lever has a hook on it and if it or any of the other levers are overlifted, the hook gets stuck on spring loaded catch. To release the detector, the bolt must be pushed a little way in the locking direction, which can only be done using the correct key since there are extra gates in the levers opposite the usual gates.

There's a write up of the detector lock in my book on high security locks. Intended publication mid 2007 in US (a bit later in UK/EU). Actually, I could only find a Tann detector lock for the pictures, but it's the same principle as the Chubb.

A Big thank you to UWSDWF , SHRUB , & Greyman on the above info regarding the Chubb Detector I now know a lot more on the workings and the reasons why this lock was introduced.
Thanks.

[Prodigy]

I am an old Chubb Boy, I did my apprenticeship with Chubb in Australia and also did my 'Chubb Locksmith" test too.

The Detector system was and still is used in the prision locks todate. the system also allows for a spring latch and hold back function.

Almost simular as to the European style multi throw lever locks. the final retraction of the bolt is infact a latch and then the latch is retracted into the lock with the final key throw and held back.

Hope this is clear as mud.

[greyman]

Prodigy, what Chubb model numbers is the detector mechanism used on?

[dazza]

Hi

just alittle info on detector locks?

DETECTOR: DETECTOR LOCK.The detector lock is a device fitted to some lever locks, Known as detector locks, to increase their security and to give notice of wrongful attemps to open them. The feature ot this invention is that the overlifting of any one of the levers, by a false key or other instrument, causes the detector lever which is placed among the other levers, to get caught and held up in the overlifted position, as seen at FIG. 103, thus definitely preventing the withdrawal of the bolt. The owner finds this out when he next goes to open the lock because the key will not operate in the ordinary manner and so he knows that someone has been trying to get the lock undone. By turning the proper key sharply in the reverse direction, as if to throw out the bolt a second time, witch movement actually does shoot the bolt a little further, the owner can regulate a lock which has been detected and then it will lock and unlock in the usual way. When well made with six levers, this lock is very secure.


DETECTOR LEVER The essential lever in adetector lock, FIG.103.

detector spring.The spring which holds up the overlifted detector lever in a lock.FIG.103.



DETENT. A pivoted member with toothed or serrated end which is swund over by a particular lever in some locks, if that lever is overlifted by a picking instrument or otherwise, and so engages with the serrations on all the levers, thus preventing their being moved while the first lever remains in the overlifted position. If the shaded lever in FIG.104 is overlifted it will the lower end of the bell crank to engage with all of the other levers to keep them fast.

and just to let you know all this text has been quoted from a very old UNION book so i thik these are union locks i think? you will have to let me know . hope this info helps someone

[Prodigy]

Greyman,

it has been a while but I would have thought you would have a nice list of them since you a throwing a book out. It most likely a test for me then.

Well the Cell door locks are called 4L55 and 4L45 they did have some differences.The detectors were mainly to prevent the prisoners from manipulating any of the levers.

The complicated lever and hold back function also allowed the door to be slamed shut in an emergency as the 45 had a seperate latch that actuated the bolt to the first set of gates in the lever.

Another which was a factory modification we did for a Bank using the 6K75 before they went to the Black 6K75. The older ones had more room inside and one less lever. these were common on the commerse doors inside the main vault.

Night safes also had them fitted to the trap door (6K64) because they were exposed on the street. Some of these also were of a latch style where the customer only had to turn the key 90* and pull the trap open. but as time and customers were breaking keys this changed and the cusomer had to finnish with the trap so as to turn and remove the key.

I hope this is a pass, I will go and find my refence books now I am enthused to find some more.