Why are kwiksets so easy?

[metalking00]

I'm by no means an experienced picker, but after hearing that kwiksets are easy, I confirmed it for myself. I've worked my way up to five pins over a 2 or 3 hour period. It seems like you put the pick in, look at it with a mean glare and it opens. What is it that makes them easier than other locks? I noticed that the side of the pins that rests against the drivers are beveled off, and thought that that might make it easier. Im sure you all know better than I do.

[Raccoon]

Yes, the beveled pins certainly help, but in general the cheap Kwikset is a very loose lock. I think we give the company Kwikset a really bad rap, but in reality most doors are cheap Kwikset knock-offs like Brinks or worse.

Realise: It is the only full-size lock that uses only 6 pin sizes instead of 9 or 10 like "normal" locks. The keyway is wide and easy to pick. The construction is cheap so that people can pick one up for $8.95 at the local drug store. You know that a Good inexpensive lockset (knob et al) shouldn't cost a penny less than $25.00 retail, and preferably closer to $50.

[Raccoon]

PS. The beveled pins are to compensate for the loose tolerances of the lock. I've put pins that were 0.013 larger or smaller than what SHOULD fit for a particular key depth, just because the keyway was soo far off that the correct pins made the lock stick.

[devildog]

In a word? Tolerances. Tolerances plus a very open (relatively non-restrictive warding; look up warding if you don't know what it is, you definately need to know) keyway makes it very easy to pick. Loose tolerances mean the holes for the key pins are not as close in alignment as they would be in a high-tolerance lock, meaning that when a pin binds only that pin binds and it's really easy to find and easy to tell when you've set it. Also, they don't use security pins, which doesn't matter as much as you think. Master uses security pins and I'll contend that the cheap Master padlocks are easier to pick that kwiksets because their tolerances are, if you can believe it, worse.

[devildog]

And if the TOLERANCES were tighter, Raccoon wouldn't be able to do that (and, no, you should not be able to do that)

[Gordon Airporte]

All of the ones I've encountered have had fairly weak springs too, which makes it easier to manipulate several pins at once, and might make oversetting less likely because you aren't trying to carefully control so much upward pressure.
Maybe the loose springs were from the locks having been in use, though.

[Krypos]

america is hte primary place where kwikset is used. (i think) and america doesnt want to pay $50 for a deadbolt. nor $25 if we can. even though it is our primary source of home security. we are cheap.

kwikset makes relatively cheap locks. for who? us americans who want cheap. we put SOMETHING on the front door and feel safe because it takes a key. kwikset makes out good and all the other smaller kwikset knockoffs make out well too.

cheap product for the average joe. and we all know that cheap products almost never are of higher quality, or even medium quality, they are cheap products for a reason.

[Bud Wiser]

america is hte primary place where kwikset is used. (i think) and america doesnt want to pay $50 for a deadbolt. nor $25 if we can. even though it is our primary source of home security. we are cheap.

kwikset makes relatively cheap locks. for who? us americans who want cheap. we put SOMETHING on the front door and feel safe because it takes a key. kwikset makes out good and all the other smaller kwikset knockoffs make out well too.

cheap product for the average joe. and we all know that cheap products almost never are of higher quality, or even medium quality, they are cheap products for a reason.

A agree for the most part, but would also suggest that America really doesn't have much of a choice in the matter any way! I put the blame entirely on the lock companies. There is absolutely no incentive for them to produce better quality locks.

The average consumer goes in to Walmart and all he see's is KWIKSET! I'm sure Kwikset is aware of that fact!

It's true given a choice between a higher priced lock and a cheaper lock a large percentage will choose the cheaper lock. But again, you can not really fault the consumer too much for this either. They are not aware how drastic a difference in quality there is. It is possible to make a better quality lock at really cheap prices. I think Brinks and Schlage proves that. There is no excuse for Kwikset to provide such junk.

Yes Americans want the best prices, but I do not believe they want "cheap" in regards to quality. There is certainly much room for kwiikset to improve on with out raising the prices! But there is no incentive for them to do so

[Raccoon]

Oh, we have options. Every hardware store sells $50 locksets. Schlage is not hard to find, and easily decent security for the average joe.

[pinsetter]

Sorry, but I have to say this:

It may not be that Americans really WANT cheap all the time. We can't just say "Americans" in general anyway. You have to think of the working class average Joe that works for $7.00 an hour and can't afford to both feed his family and keep gas in his car. What if that same individual also paid a mortgage? I'm sure that guy would love to have the $50 Schlage, but necessity dictates that he buy the $8 Kwikset, if he can even afford that.

All one has to do to understand the need for such companies as Kwikset, who are made by Black & Decker, is to look at the percentage of the population that exists at or below poverty level. Sure, the doctors, lawyers, politicians, and such can afford to put nice expensive locks on their doors, but let the poor part time auto mechanic with little education to better himself try that.

Ok, that takes care of the consumer end of it, but there is another disturbing trend here also. That being the construction companies that all want to get rich quick. They use the crappiest materials available, throw the prefab walls up, finish the houses in a week or under, then want to sell it for a 1/4 of a million dollars or more. So you're paying a good portion of your lifetime's income on some nice shoddy workmanship that was thrown together as quickly and cheaply as possible. But hey, most people don't know any better. They see the bright shiny brass and go "OOOOH....AAAHHHH.....aint that pretty!" and are none the wiser to the internal quality of the product they're actually looking at. Oh, and as I mentioned earlier, these are the people who can afford to actually buy a house. We all already know how most landlord types are. CHEAP! So, therefore, the American Way will always make it a necessity for companies like Kwikset, Faultless, and Weiser to exist and thrive. By the American way I mean wages that are just no way near enough to cover even the basic cost of living for a large percentage of the population.

[Kaotik]

I agree with you pinsetter.

It is funny though. I walked into the Ace Hardware store and seen 30+ variations of Kwiksets and knock-offs and only 3 Schlages, 2 dead bolts and 1 KIK. Now the average price of the Kwiksets was around $13.95-26.99, and the price of all the Schlages were upwards of $39.95.

I know which one the average joe is going to choose. In fact, there was an older lady there trying to decide which knock-off to purchase, she moved towards the Schlages and turned immediately back and walked to the Kwiksets.

[Bud Wiser]

pinsetter - AMEN! Well said. And on target with contractors too. I live in a track, surounded by other similar tracks, all built by the same 3 contractors for our area. Every thing is done as cheaply as possible to keep the costs down. The result is every one in a 5 mile radious to me has the same locks, doors, windows, cheap kitchen drawers, roof, and plumbing (also laughable).

People assume Americans all live in a lap of luxury, while most are better off then a lot of other people in the world, most Americans live just to make ends meet.

As for our politicians, plz, it seems only the very poor and very rich are subject to any relief. The middle class (the majority) is forced to pay for both

[Krypos]

I agree with you pinsetter.

It is funny though. I walked into the Ace Hardware store and seen 30+ variations of Kwiksets and knock-offs and only 3 Schlages, 2 dead bolts and 1 KIK. Now the average price of the Kwiksets was around $13.95-26.99, and the price of all the Schlages were upwards of $39.95.

I know which one the average joe is going to choose. In fact, there was an older lady there trying to decide which knock-off to purchase, she moved towards the Schlages and turned immediately back and walked to the Kwiksets.

exactly, i went to ace hardware a while ago and they had 2 schlages. both the same KIK. they wanted something like $48 for a single KIK. at the time i was searching for a good practice cylinder, and they had (literally) about 200 different kwikset, and kwikset knockoff brand deadbolts, KIKs and everything else. there was also one (1) yale deadbolt there, they wanted like a good $70 for it. so i went for the $12 knockoff with "pick resistant pins"

as for my saying americans want the cheapest, i didnt mean the cheapest product, we all want the best, but we want to pay for the cheapest. i know this for a fact, as i have a EZSET on my front door. it is a cheap kwikset knockoff. i havent even bothered to try and pick it because its almost not worth the time.

[devildog]

Go to home depot or lowes, schlages are $25-35 for a plain deadbolt, kwiksets are less, and they have a really good selection of Master padlocks along with Kryptonite bike locks if you want to play with those, too...

[Bud Wiser]

Go to home depot or lowes, schlages are $25-35 for a plain deadbolt, kwiksets are less, and they have a really good selection of Master padlocks along with Kryptonite bike locks if you want to play with those, too...

We have a Lowes near us, but Kryptonite? They can be opened with a Bic pen