kwikset security, too easy even for a n00b

[p1ckf1sh]

p1ckf1sh,

Thank you for setting that photo link issue correctly. I was wrongly guessing that my jpeg's resolution was too high to show up here in the thread.

No, by default images of any size will show up, at least as Shrub comes along. I have no clue why this was done, as there are millions of posts with images too large.

Whatever, the way of linking I told you about will work nevertheless, to prevent moderator actions you can use the Photobucket service to reduce the size of the images after they were uploaded. You click on the modify button of the link and then it is straight forward.

If you have any questions regarding these technicalities, feel free to ask in the general chatter section, there's always with a clue, hint, idea or workaround.

[kepiblanc]

I see you have been bumping it.

jimb,

I'm unsure what makes you say this. I never bumped this lock. I usually pick it with my Southord "L" rake and my short-handle tension wrench. (These tools can be seen inserted into the keyway in the photo below.) Sometimes I use my Southord "S" rake too, but honestly, I have never even tried bumping ANY lock yet.

I have only seen bumping done on padlocks. I reckon that bumping would be difficult to perform on any lock which is mounted within a door, if not altogether impossible. If anybody can bump such a lock, then I would like to see it.

[p1ckf1sh]

Sorry for flooding this thread... I just checked you image back, and I have to agree with Shrub in the size issue now.

Your pic is 1280x960, a dimension that is probably taken right off the camera. When I first looked at it, my browser automatically resized it to about half of it, that is why I considered it to be OK to link directly in-post.

But this results in the need to scroll horizontally and this is generally not very user-friendly unless you have a mouse with two scroll-wheels.

So, kepiblanc, next time you can just upload your original image to photobucket, then go to the "Modify" button for that pic and resize it 50%, that will give a pic if 640 pixels width and that should fit in pretty well when linking it directly.

[kepiblanc]

p1ckf1sh,

You are correct; my camera's resolution is set to 1280x960 - its largest possible setting. I just resized one of my Photobucket images to 50%, so that it will display for everyone with greater ease.

[p1ckf1sh]

Kepiblanc, sorry for confusing, the button is labeled "Edit", not "Modify".

I think what jimb is referring to as the lock looking bumped is this:



See the area I marked in red, below the keyway? Locks that took a lot of bumping will develop a dent in exactly that place. But from the look of the mark on your lock, it looks machined, it is very rectangular, while the bump marks tend to look more like a crater of sorts (that is rounded with matarial being pushed out to the sides forming kind of a rim).

If you want, I can find one of my locks with lots of bumping done to and post a closeup of that.

Also, it is no problem to bump a mounted lock. Why do you think it would not work? I have seen people do it to mounted locks all the time, either on the door or clamped to a vise. I have to say that I had more success by bumping my locks while holding them because the timing is easier, but it can be certainly done.

[p1ckf1sh]

Sorry for posting the wrong image in the previous post. Too bad we're not entrusted with the edit function on this forum, so some mod will have a great time mopping up after me.

And kepiblanc, I stil see the pic in full size. Have you maybe uploaded multiple identical pictures and resized the wrong one?

[p1ckf1sh]

kepiblanc, never mind me, your pic is displaying OK now.

[kepiblanc]

See the area I marked in red, below the keyway? Locks that took a lot of bumping will develop a dent in exactly that place. But from the look of the mark on your lock, it looks machined, it is very rectangular, while the bump marks tend to look more like a crater of sorts (that is rounded with matarial being pushed out to the sides forming kind of a rim).

If you want, I can find one of my locks with lots of bumping done to and post a closeup of that.

Also, it is no problem to bump a mounted lock. Why do you think it would not work? I have seen people do it to mounted locks all the time, either on the door or clamped to a vise. I have to say that I had more success by bumping my locks while holding them because the timing is easier, but it can be certainly done.

p1ckf1sh,

The indentation on the plug of this lock cylinder, which you have marked in red above, was already present when I obtained the lockset itself. You are correct in saying that it looks machined, because all of the other Kwikset Maximum Security lockset plugs which I have seen at the stores looked no different than this one.

I certainly hope that you will post a close-up of one of your frequently bumped locks.

So, you have seen people bump locks which are mounted within doors? Well, since one cannot move such a lock in conjunction with the hand that wields the hammer or mallet which strikes the bump key, this would seem to me as being ever so much a rather tricky stunt.

Perhaps I may have missed such a spectacle, but I did not see anybody bumping mounted locks at HOPE Number Six, the last event where lock picking was featured at which I was present.

[illusion]

Isn't 'Kwikset security' an oxymoron?

[p1ckf1sh]

The indentation on the plug of this lock cylinder, which you have marked in red above, was already present when I obtained the lockset itself. You are correct in saying that it looks machined, because all of the other Kwikset Maximum Security lockset plugs which I have seen at the stores looked no different than this one.

I certainly hope that you will post a close-up of one of your frequently bumped locks.

Well, I assumed it was factory made as it looked to smooth and exact to be a bumping mark.

I have done a quick look through my locks, and it seems that those who took a lot of beating are currently dug away into moving boxes (I am currently moving and have most of my stuff packed) but I found a few lock with slight bumping marks. I am posting two of those pics, one straight shot and one from an angle for each one. As said, these are slight marks, i'd say maybe two dozen hits on each. When it gets worse, as said, these marks become deeper and more material is pushed to the sides generally, kinda like a crater on the moon. These marks are essentially cold deformation/cold forging.

So, you have seen people bump locks which are mounted within doors? Well, since one cannot move such a lock in conjunction with the hand that wields the hammer or mallet which strikes the bump key, this would seem to me as being ever so much a rather tricky stunt.

There is no such movement involved actually to make bumping work. Sure, when you do it in your hand you are always moving the hand after the strike but this is not needed. I have seen people bumping mounted locks in some videos, I think downloaded from Toool. I think it was in the video file that was a capture of the TV report aired in the Netherlands. I also have bumped locks myself, mounted to a vise, which is essentially the same. The only tricks thing bumping mounted locks is the fact that you have to realign your hands to a different position. Holding the lock with one hand fully is just different from having to just having the surface of the door to work on. But it is different, not necessarily harder. On the other hand, I think it would be harder to bump a badly mounted lock that has room to move to and fro.

Perhaps I may have missed such a spectacle, but I did not see anybody bumping mounted locks at HOPE Number Six, the last event where lock picking was featured at which I was present.

Well, maybe the people did not really want to screw around with bumping... It is not something that really shows skill. As it looks I might be heading for the 22C3 after all, so if we meet up face to face there you can play around with my euros and their bumpkeys if you like...

[kepiblanc]

Isn't 'Kwikset security' an oxymoron?

illusion,

This a good question indeed. It appears that the ANSI ratings for locksets, numbered one, two, and three, are all based upon testing procedures that focus mainly on physically attacking (Such attacks would likely be blunt trauma force, drilling, prying, etc.) the lock, and perhaps just a cursory attempt to pick it.

I have yet to see or read about exactly what picking methods and tools are used by those who conduct these tests for the ANSI. Would anybody know?

[p1ckf1sh]

I have yet to see or read about exactly what picking methods and tools are used by those who conduct these tests for the ANSI. Would anybody know?

ANSI. Or the American Society for Testing and Materials Standards. Unfortunately, they charge some serious dough for a look into their cards. You are looking for ASTM F476-84(2002) which is the "Standard Test Methods for Security of Swinging Door Assemblies" documentation.

Available at 40$ here.

http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/p ... %282002%29

[kepiblanc]

I have seen people bumping mounted locks in some videos, I think downloaded from Toool. I think it was in the video file that was a capture of the TV report aired in the Netherlands.

p1ckf1sh,

I just watched what I believe is this same TV report from the Netherlands that you referred to. I saw it on a youtube video, which had English subtitles.

I was impressed to see how a Dutch locksmith, with 30 years of experience, used a bump key and a small plastic handle screwdriver as an impact tool, to open some type of rim mortise lock cylinder mounted within the metal frame front entrance door to his shop in this video. Barry Wels is interviewed in this report also. Here is the link to the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uv45y6v ... ed&search=