Kawneer...any info?

[Krypos]

spring covers? Are these a mortise lock?
Any event, you could try shimming the lock if you have a keyblank.

Not a bad deal on locks. Personally, I'd like to find suppliers to purchase quantities of brand cylinders and plugs from.

ok heres a shocker...get ready....here it comes...


WTF is a mortise lock? they look like the cylinders of a deadbolt to me. with a small metal slide right over the pins stacks to keep the pins in. pull that thing out and you can repin a lock easy. although pulling that thing out (typically) means destroying it, so i use a tin can and a rubber band to keep all the goodies in. i know it sounds primitive and cheap, but it works really well, and i can just undo the rubber band and repin it in like 30 sec flat. i think it works real well for practice locks. seeing as how i repin it after i feel like it no longer poses a challenge as is.

[globallockytoo]

Kawneer locks came out many many years ago in the USA and were among the first of the threaded mortise cylinders for the US market.

Noticeably, the Kawneer cylinders were originally very similar to the original Yale pin tumbler cylinder, that restarted the modern lock cylinder manufacturing industry.

Kawneer went out of business a long time ago...but the name was picked up by a copy manufacturer and because it was so well known worldwide across the construction industry, they were sold quite extensively virtually everywhere.

Kawneer were one of the first companies to apply the principle of construction keying to their cylinders.

Hope this helps as to some background

[Krypos]

wow...thats great, but where are you getting this? is there any reference to back that up? (not that i dont trust you)

either way, thats great to know, something that hasnt been brought to the table yet, thanks!

one of these locks wasnt branded with kawneer on it, and it doesnt feel anything like the rest, however, it is pinned the same, the back is the same, and it is/was dirty like the same, also the keyways is the same, so i am assuming it is kawneer, however, it look like its of much nicer quality.

im working on repinning it to match my key i have (that didnt come with it) and so far i am at pin 4 of 5 and the key works and i can pick it fairly consistantly ----->

[globallockytoo]

I used to have alot of books and magazines dating back to the 30's with reference to alot of this information....but i gave most of them away when i moved countries a while back.

You might look in your local library for The Encyclopedia of Locks and Locksmithing....(i cant remenber the author) it has alot of useful information....also Encyclopedis Brittanica and World Book Encylcopedias have alot of great info too.

[Raccoon]

I'm keeping notes on all this. I'm starting a wiki reference site which will contain scads of historic industry information, all linked and cross-referenced. The origin of the construction key is a really neat find.

[Krypos]

ok, so i disasembled one of the locks after having picked it (BTW- this one was way too easy, i sometimes use a half ball for raking pin tumblers, it often works well...) so i stuck my half ball into the lock and slid it out and pop. it was open, well this one doesnt have one of those slide things on top (someone please give me some terminology for those) and so i had to pick it to open it. (since i dont care about a plug follower, i didnt mind the following part) when i opened it, all the driver pins shot out of the cylinder (as expected), except heres where it gets odd. all the driver pins where actually key pins! one sided bullet shaped pins. (obviously key pins) and i am confused, having never seen that before, so i look in the plug, sure enough, there are 5 more key pins, the way they were supposed to be. 10 key pins, 0 driver pins and 5 springs.

was the most confused ive been since i opened my first lock.

so, is this an error on the company's part? or is it a foolish lockie? perhaps done on purpose because he had no drivers? does it make any difference?

unfortunately, i didnt get to methodically take them out because they flew out, so i dont know if they were pointed end up or down.


on another note, does it matter if driver pins are difference lengths? i mean, if one is short and one is long. does it affect picking? or regular key operations?

[globallockytoo]

Quite often, some locksmiths will replace the top pins(drivers) with bottom pins and the bullet end down...

There can be multiple reasons for this.

1) Using bottom pins as top pins further increases the tolerance in the lock making it substantially easier to pick.

2) Sometimes, if a key has been cut incorrectly, either too high or too deep, replacing the conventional top pins with bottom pins will allow for poorly cut keys to work more smoothly.

3) Sometimes, rather than lubricating the lock with a dry lubricant like graphite, replacing the top pins will make the lock operate more smoothly.

4) Sometimes, in a masterkeyed system, there can be many different keys that are supposed to work the cylinder. For various reasons some of the keys stop working and replacing the top pins with bottom pins, may allow all keys to work smoother.

[Krypos]

that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard of. not what your saying, but the fact that someone with a brain would do that to a lock.

[pinsetter]

I've used bullet style key pins for driver pins in some of my practice locks, but I placed them upside down, with the bullet end facing the spring. I done this for one reason only: To balance the lock. I made all the stacks the same height, so the springs would all be under equal resistance.

I would not do this on a lock that was in use anywhere, but for practice cylinders where no security pins are going to be used it is fine as long as the beveled end is toward the spring.

[globallockytoo]

that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard of. not what your saying, but the fact that someone with a brain would do that to a lock.

I agree with you....it is pretty dumb....however, sometimes you might be out on a job where you have a situation where you are out of those blanks or you used your last one on the previous job....and you onle need to replace a customers key....and/or...replacing one keys will not solve the problem because there are many keys out there with similar problems in that cylinder....

Rather than actually replacing all the keys at once (best case scenario)....a locksmith can make it so that all those other (slightly worn or miscut) keys will still work the repaired cylinder and that makes the customer happy....even if only for the short term/

[globallockytoo]

Heres another thing....have you ever heard of reaming the barrel?

using bottom pins as top pins is basically similar

[Krypos]

never heard of it. splain more.

[globallockytoo]

never heard of it. splain more.

"Reaming" is taking (say) a 3/8 drill and slightly countersinking each pin hole chamber on the plug....this will widen the tolerances slightly and can help to make manipulation simpler without replacing topins with bottom pins.

Comprehende?

[Krypos]

how do you know so much? you have <50 posts. and yet, you know so much!

only conclusion: you are a locksmith. and yet, you dont sound like a lockie. but your name....

i am so out of it.

[Shrub]

What you explain is counter sinking and somthing i would never do to a plug, ever,

Reamin is removing a very slight amount from a bore by useing a tool called a reamer, a reamer is like a drill but has almost straight flutes and lots of them, they only remove the slightest amount of material and are for giving a good finish on a bore and making it a certain dimension, they are useually used on smaller holes where a proper boring attachment wouldnt fit,

To phisically alter any part of a lock be it the plug, pins, chambers or otherwise is simply not the correct way of doing things,

It can be acceptable as an emergency repair to alter the phisical properties of a lock but that lock must be replaced asap,