A brief guide to taking digital pictures.

[Krypos]

i guess i fall under option 2.

i like windows. despite the fact they are magnets for attacks. but only because they are the main OS. if mac os was the worlds main OS. then i guarentee that mac would have just as many probs as windows/microsoft.


i can work with macs, i just dont like it. my school has them, and i dont like them.

and plus, windows is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more customizable than any mac os.

the only really good thing (IMO) to come out of MAC, is their line of iProducts. itunes, ipod, etc.


and plus, i read an article in pcgamer, about some mac users getting windows xp to run on their macs. no why oh why, would someone want windows to run on their mac if windows wasnt better?

[digital_blue]

"Making the world a better place, one Mac user at a time."

LOL. Actually, I'll throw in my two cents, just to defend my honor here. I was a Windows user for a long time, then I became a Mac lover. That's the difference: Windows user/ Mac lover.

In fact, I'm no slouch with technology, nor with Windows. I worked (some time ago) as a Network Analyst for a major hospital in Winnipeg. At age 19 I was a partner in a computer store. For several years I did service and consult for many small businesses. My point? I understand Windows. I just don't like it.

Why? 'Cause I got bloody tired of having to work so hard to keep things running smoothly. Granted, I'm not the easiest guy on my OS's, but running Windows began to feel somewhat like slamming my thumb in the cutlery drawer, continually.

I reached a point where I just needed to get out from it all. So I looked at other options. Of course, my first foray into alternate OS's took me to Linux. Actually, it took me there several times. About once a year I would make another impassioned attempt to take the plunge and shed my M$ ways, but I just couldn't commit to Linux for, ironically, much the same reason I wanted to escape Windows: effort. I want to use my computer, not work at it. When the amount of time I was spending just getting my OS to do what I wanted started to eat at the time I had to actually get stuff done, it was a clear sign that I needed a better OS.

If I had to work that hard to use my toaster I'd eat more soft bread. Simple as that.

So, I finally (and almost reluctantly), bought my first Mac. This thing is a dream. It is a really, really good, stable, full-featured OS. I don't really have to think about it. It just works.

Now, though I personally have a deep-rooted hatred for Windows, I don't begrudge those of you who use it. You just have to put up with what you get. If it works for you, fine. I make some small compromises myself to use a Mac (actually, almost none in my case). There's very little game support for Mac. Fair enough. If I want to game, I have an Xbox. There are occasionally software support issues, and for those times, I run Virtual PC to load up Win XP. I hate to have to do it, but not every company has given support to Mac. Fair enough. When I run Virtual PC, it's a little sluggish, but since it is so infrequent, I can live with that. Beyond that, it's all good. And better still? I'm not spending my Saturday afternoon fighting off a nasty virus, ridding my system of malware, or fully re-installing my OS as part of my bi-annual "lets make this thing run right" campaign.

But that's just my own experience. Your milage may vary. Use what works for you.

db

[digital_blue]

and plus, windows is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more customizable than any mac os.

and plus, i read an article in pcgamer, about some mac users getting windows xp to run on their macs. no why oh why, would someone want windows to run on their mac if windows wasnt better?

With all due respect, I think this is a bit uninformed. As for customization, there's virtually no limit with a Mac. You just have to know how to do it. As I said, I prefer the "easy" approach to my OS, so I don't bother much with eye candy and the like. As for why someone would run windows, as I said, because sometimes you have to, particularly in the gaming world, because thats the one area where the support is just not there yet.

As for your guarantee that if Mac was the #1 OS it would be just as bad.. .I have two things to say to that:
1) How do you know?
2) So what? It's not.

db

[illusion]

I like eye candy, and actualy at one point used a proggy to make Windows appear like a Mac. I guess it's not the biggest issue, but I do like things to look good.

My computer requires a full system wipe perhaps 3 times every year, and this is providing I wait untill my PC is in the cyber state of comatose. It takes a full day to get all the programs, apps, and general things that make life easy. As for data, well let's hope you back up regularly.

Now you're probably thinking I do stuff that probably harms my computer, but I don't install anything unless I have to (Firefox being an exception), don't download illegal software and other such things that would bring a virus. don't visit any of those shady porn sites that slip crap onto your computer, and finaly stay as up-tp-date with security patches as humanly possible. Despite all this, Windows still goes down, almost routinely.

Having given both Mac and Windows a chance, I fully agree with what db said.

I wonder what Windows Vista will be like?

[eric343]

I like eye candy, and actualy at one point used a proggy to make Windows appear like a Mac. I guess it's not the biggest issue, but I do like things to look good.

Everytime someone uses 'prog' or 'proggy' as an abbreviation for 'program,' I remember being 12 years old and armed to the teeth on AOL.

I like Macs because they require much less fiddling around for the equivalent result on WIndows. My Mac usually 'just works,' my Windows box rarely does.

[Krypos]

As for your guarantee that if Mac was the #1 OS it would be just as bad.. .I have two things to say to that:
1) How do you know?
2) So what? It's not.

db

i know it because it is inevitable. no matter how good something is, no matter how perfect, unstoppable, etc etc. someone is going to hate it. and someone is going to want to exploit it. and someone is going to want to break it. so there will always be problems. so if right now, microsoft got bought out by macintosh, and all computers where macs. i KNOW it would only be a matter of time before some hacker started exploiting mac os and use its user friendly ease of use to mass mail it. trust me here.


i guess what we're all saying is that windows is good fi you like to tinker and work on stuff and be hands on, and macs are good for just using. you can load up and do your work without worrying about other stuff. i like to work on other stuff. and tinker and such. ill say that much, macs are good for working without other problems interupting.

as for viruses on windows, i have norton antivirus and its wonderful. i can go to any site and not care about downloading whatever or whatnot. heck, norton even disables bad ads if i so choose. i download anything and everything and dont care, and since getting norton, havent suffered the ill effects of viruses, spyware, adware, or any other problems.

in fact, i was donwloading mods for doom3 a while back and i was getting them from everywhere and anywhere and just saving them to the desktop. well, it so happens that one of them was a trojan horse. norton realized this moments after i downloaded it and notified me that norton has automatically quarintined those files and if id like to delete them? i suffered no effects of the trojan.

so if you have a pc and are worried or have problems with viruses, etc get norton. its great.

[digital_blue]

i know it because it is inevitable. no matter how good something is, no matter how perfect, unstoppable, etc etc. someone is going to hate it.

Ah, but you see, the question is not whether people would try and find exploits and viruses for Mac. They have. It's already been done. Several security vulnerabilities have been shown, and there are (to my knowledge) two known viruses that can infect a Mac running OS X. Both utilize a vulnerability in iChat, and since I never use iChat, I have been - thus far - wholly unmoved by this revelation. But again, that is not the question.

The question is whether Mac would be "as bad" as Windows. I would argue that it would not be, since I believe the overall architecture of OS X to be better. It is a downright stable and relatively secure OS.

It seems Microsoft is heading in the right direction with Vista, but it'll still be a long, long time before I think about going back - if ever. Early releases of Vista are, apparently, quite secure (despite the Blackhat debacle). But I guess time will tell on that.

Actually, from what I understand (and I'm no expert on the matter), even Windows XP is remarkably secure if "properly configured" (whatever THAT means, since it seems that "properly configured" bears no resemblance to "out of the box").

But again, I go back to the fact that I just want to USE a computer. It's a tool. If my circular saw worked as well as my WinXP box did, I'd buy a new circular saw. The day I get a Blue Screen Of Death on my TV is the day I take up needlepoint.

Anyway... like I said, I'm not trying to tell you not to run Windows, but to imply that there's something wrong with running a Mac is just nonsense. Predominantly, the geeks have figured that out. There were a sea of Macs at DEFCON.

db

[p1ckf1sh]

Actually, from what I understand (and I'm no expert on the matter), even Windows XP is remarkably secure if "properly configured" (whatever THAT means, since it seems that "properly configured" bears no resemblance to "out of the box").

Turning off unnecessary service via the control panel.
Google hits for info and guides
Comprehensive guide to services
Keeping up to date with Updating and rolling in hotfixes.
On a fresh install, with all drivers and tools installed, go to Task Manager and write down/memorize the number of running tasks. When things turn weird for some reason, reboot system, go to Task Manager and check if the number increased.
Install only software from trusted sources.
use Firefox instead of IE and Thunderbird instead of Outlook and Trillian Pro instead of MSN Messenger and TCMP instead of Media Player.

Really, most of the attack points are opened up by users themselves, by installing software that is not required or leaving services open. I agree it should be like that out-of-the-box but it MS policy to make things EASY not SECURE.

Oh, and forget all those personal firewalls, ZoneAlarm, etc. They are a pain in the rearside, gobble up CPU time and do NOTHING for your security. They are not even really firewalls, but packet filters. Any malicious program worth a dime can get data in and out without these things even knowing there are bits moving. Waste of time and money. If you are protecting a larger network of home machines, setup a dedicated box with some real NAT and maybe an IDS. Stateful inspection is the keyword, anything else is just a Kwikset - electronic voodoo, a digital placebo, the belief to be secure.

Anyway... like I said, I'm not trying to tell you not to run Windows, but to imply that there's something wrong with running a Mac is just nonsense. Predominantly, the geeks have figured that out. There were a sea of Macs at DEFCON.

I agree with you. But i have to admit knowing Macs, linux derivates and Windows, my decision always falls in favor of Windows (at least from W2k upwards). It is quick to install, has the magnitude of software one could ever want. You can work pretty well with Windows, it just must not be a out-of-the-box system. I respect Macs and their architecture and crowd though. They are just not my favorite.

[digital_blue]

Now you see, p1ckf1sh, you really make my point quite wonderfully. You are probably EXACTLY the kind of guy who probably does great with windows. I don't know what your background is, but for the moment, lets assume that you started out as an everyday, only semi-savvy, computer user. In order to successfully run Windows, you had to learn all the stuff you mentioned. You had to take time to study that stuff, and to implement it in your own installation. It is precisely why I won't. It's not to say I couldn't - as I said, I did work in the industry for some time, about a decade ago - but I left the computer industry and these days I just have no desire to have to work that hard to make my system run.

Like I said, I can appreciate the Windows fans, as well as the Linux fans, but I just think that your OS should work out-of-the-box.

I mean, really... let's all take a step back and think about this seriously. Shouldn't it? Isn't in reasonable to expect that something so fundamental as an operating system should work well straight from install? I think so. The concept has been spoofed many times for comedy, but imagine for a moment if we were willing to tolerate that sort of thing from other household appliances. It would just not happen. And yet, we accept it from our OS. I did for a long time because there was no viable option. To move to Linux was at the time, someone like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire, at least with respect to ease of operation. And Mac OS pre-X was just not anywhere near adequate. Though secure and stable, it's security and stability and even ease of use meant nothing to me when I could not get the applications I use regularly.

But with OS X, I seemed to have found that near perfect OS. It works pretty well flawlessly, and offers me the services I need, with very very few exceptions. (Truthfully, I only recently loaded Virtual PC, and that was really only to run LSS+, since there is no Mac version available for that resource).

So, I will stand by my "to each his own" position, and can appreciate why Windows works for you, but as for me and my house, I'm gonna praise the Mac.

db

[Jason13]

5.0MP Enjoy my Abus 65/50 Cylinder

http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 5570wu.jpg

[shijil619]

All the pics are down! :(

Please reupload. :)

[Legion303]

All the pictures are up, so it's a problem on your end. But even if they were down, that would be expected of a 4-year-old thread. :)

-steve