Old Key Cutters, versatility, reliability and price?

[Schuyler]

I've been sent a couple of pictures of a key machine I was interested in.




One is belt driven! Ok, so I've been reading through tons of old key machine posts, and I've been learning a lot. However, posts about old machines are always answered in a pretty specific manner, so I couldn't find any general advice.

So, I turn to you, the modern crew. First, is the cutter in the second picture even worth making an offer on? What could it be worth, do you think it can cut current keys? (I know that keys have changed over the years, I'm just not sure how dramatically or during what periods of time they changed) The numbers on it appear to be k-430?

And, for the first cutter. Again, modernity is a big question. Can this cut current keys? The number on this one is: h2584CV looking it up on google it appears I can still get cutters and parts for it, so I'm not as worried. It'll obviously be worth more, but what's a fair price for it?

I would not be at all surprised if there are other people on this forum making offers on either of these machines, as this was an item pulled from ebay, but I'd appreciate any legitimate feedback. I'm fairly clueless as to the value of locksmithing supplies.

Thank you in advance.

- Schuyler

[devildog]

Second one looks like a foley-belsaw.

[Krypos]

id be afraid to turn the second one on. fear for my life. go for the first one. will last longer IMO.

[UWSDWF]

both look to be in working order and if not the parts are cheap

to be honest if you took the red plastic off the first it would look like the second

either shoud cut most common keys that a standard dupe would

[Shrub]

Im with that,

The second one would need a little TLC and setting up but other than the motor situation does look ok condition wise, the cutters both seem to be for mortice blanks but could possably be changed for cylinder ones but they are expensive,

The bottom one if it doesnt already seems to have the facility to add a depth mike to it so you will be able to cut by code,

If offering individually they are both pretty much worth the same, and out of choice for its simplicity and future code cutting ability, thinking that you want these for hobby work (as a lockie i wouldnt have either) then i would actually go for the bottom one,

As for money? well i think $80 each would be a fair price to both of youor $130 for the pair but thats a guess on what i can see,

I cylinder cutter may cost you another $60-$80 each, from what i can see im almost sure both cutters on the machines are mortice ones,

[Schuyler]

Thanks, Shrub and UWSDWF.

I followed your advice and I'm the highest offer on the Foley-Belsaw, presently.

Everything's coming up Schuyler!

[keysman]

The second one is a foley belsaw .. not real practical as a "commercial duplicator " but can be made into a decent code machine .... parts are available from Foley or just ask around some of the locksmith sites..... very slow and does require some practice ,but it is a reasonable substitute for a “real “ code machine.
I would put a bigger motor on it just because that little sewing machine motor scares me.

Cost ?? as it sits $50 – $80 and that’s only if you plan on making a code machine out of it.. I would not purchase that machine for a duplicator at all.. it just doesn’t have the accuracy or the speed to be of much value.

The 1st machine is a real work horse Made by Ilco (in Canada I think). If the cover is any indication of wear, you have a pretty good machine there. If you are doing any volume of duplicating that would be my choice,

[Schuyler]

The second one is a foley belsaw .. not real practical as a "commercial duplicator " but can be made into a decent code machine .... parts are available from Foley or just ask around some of the locksmith sites..... very slow and does require some practice ,but it is a reasonable substitute for a “real “ code machine.
I would put a bigger motor on it just because that little sewing machine motor scares me.

Cost ?? as it sits $50 – $80 and that’s only if you plan on making a code machine out of it.. I would not purchase that machine for a duplicator at all.. it just doesn’t have the accuracy or the speed to be of much value.

The 1st machine is a real work horse Made by Ilco (in Canada I think). If the cover is any indication of wear, you have a pretty good machine there. If you are doing any volume of duplicating that would be my choice,

Nah, no duplicating, really, I'm interested in trying to cut some keys to code and maybe dup my own keys or my roomates once in a while, but mostly just to have a machine to learn with. Slow and requiring lots of practice sounds just my speed Thanks for the information!

[bpc293]

ebay will pull it before the end of the auction. contact the seller tell him its going to happen and work out a deal before it's pulled.

[Schuyler]

It's actually already been pulled. It's in private bidding now. Thanks for the heads up though.

[bpc293]

i lost a few i would of liked to have a couple antique ones i really wanted. ebay real .......... sometimes.

[Schuyler]

i lost a few i would of liked to have a couple antique ones i really wanted. ebay real .......... sometimes.

Yeah, I was actually looking forward to the Yale and Towne MFG yale key cutter that was up recently. Towne is an ancestor, and my grampa collects old engines, so I thought it would be a hoot to hitch a little simplicity up to it's belt drive and actually pump out a few keys.

Alas, pulled on the last day of the auction. You would think their ban wouldn't apply to antiques, as it would be extremely difficult to make use of them for nefarious ends.

*grumble*

[I Pik U]

Here's a couple of antique machines we scored from other locksmiths recently.

This one cuts regular keys on the left side, and skelton type keys one the right. It has 4 cutters that rotate into position on the right , 3 for different thinkness blades, and one T blade for ward cuts top abd bottom. Also a separate milling/ward cutter on the far right end.




This one is an old Yale machine, which had a hand crank set up on the pully:

[maxxed]

Thanks for posting those photo's, I always enjoy looking over unique machines like those. I have seen an old Brigs and Stratton code machine that has a hand crank and another lockie has a first key machine that I would like to get.