let me get this straight

[mr lockpickman]

alright i think i've got simple lockpicking worked out...

here we go

i get the lock and put in the tension tool where the flat(bottom) part of the key would go

i turn the lock a bit with the tension tool and insert the pick, i work the pins till i find the one with the most force on it (force caused by the bottom plate being pushed) i push the pins (or generaly mess around with them)till it 'locks' into place between the plates, then i do the same to the other pin/pins, then i push them both into the correct position and away we go lock open

could you help me if i'm not right[/img]

[mightymouse]

You dont have to put the torque tool in the bottom necessarily; you can put it anywhere that allows you to apply torque and which you feel comfortable doing and which still allows you to get your pick inside the lock. Try the top as well, but dont push the tool in as far as it will go otherwise it will connect with the first pin (presuming were talking pin tumbler locks here) and make it difficult to lift with your pick.

All this is explained with theoretical models to help, in the MIT Guide to lockpicking. You can find several versions of this document with google; the best imho is the one in PDF format which is very nice printed out.

[plot]

tension wrench goes anywhere where it can turn the plug, and not be in the way of the pick and the pins.

you put a slight amount of pressure on the tension wrench, which causes one of the pins to "bind" (or have a lot more force the the other pins as you mentioned). then you slowly move that up until it reaches the sheer line (the proper name for the line between the two "plates"... while we're at it, the part of the lock where you put the key in is called the "plug"). Once it reaches the shear line, the pressure will stop, the tension wrench will move slightly, and another pin will "bind". continue the process until all pins are pushed up to the "sheer line", and then you will be able to turn the "plug" all the way and the lock opens.


the pins will have a different feeling if the are set (when they are picked so to speak they are referred to as being 'set'), when they arn't set, and when they are binding.

when they are set, there will be total resistance when trying to push on the pin, but the spring won't be pushing down on it so the pin will fall all the way down if you can see in the lock and watch it...

when it is not set, and not binding, then it will be springy. you'll be able to push it up easily, and it will fall right back down.

when it is binding, there will be stiff resistance, but the pin will move up. when stop pushing up with the pick, the pin won't fall back down. when it eventually sets, the tension wrench will move slightly (usually, tension wrench doesn't always move), and the pin won't move up anymore.. but when you let off, it will drop down completely.

the key is, to learn how to feel each of these stages with the pick. when you start learning how to tell which pin is doing what, then you will be well on your way to becoming a proficient lock picker. when starting out though, it might be hard to tell if you are even pressing down on just one pin or more... which is why it's recommended you start out with a lock that only has one pin (buy a kwikset deadbolt and take all but one pin out, search the forums.. plenty of tutorials on how to do this), and go from there.

[mr lockpickman]

ok i think i might get an easier/different lock 2morrow, i have never before picked a lock, and i am trying on a 4 pin 'heritage brass' padlock, i will try and get a very cheap 3 pin house lock (are they pin tumbler locks?)

anyway, the 4 pin padlock i was trying to pick i only thought was a 3 pin lock, (so that's why i was having trouble)

i am using old bits of wire (strong saftey pins and others to use it)

i live in england, do locksmiths sell lockpick sets? b cus my friend tells me his dad bought 1, but he lies.

anyway...

except for the first pin (one with most force once pressure is applied)do they have to be in most pressure to least order?

[plot]

check the FAQ section of the forum, one of the stickies contains a list of online stores you can buy lockpicks from.

i seriously doubt a normal locksmith will sell you a set of picks unless you are good friends with him...

[Mad Mick]

except for the first pin (one with most force once pressure is applied)do they have to be in most pressure to least order?

You will generally only feel resistance on one, maybe two pins upon first applying tension, when picking a cheap lock. You will not feel the picking order as such, but if you feel a tighly binding pin and another pin which is binding slightly less, pick the tightest one and the slightly less binding pin will most likely become the tightest amongst the rest of the unpicked pins.

Picking consists of finding the tightest binding pin, picking (setting) it, then finding the tightest pin again, and so on. Picking order, in general, runs from front to back or back to front depending on which way the plug is turned. There will be situations where the order is out of sequence though, so don't take the above as gospel.

When picking a better quality lock, the machining tolerances are a lot closer, resulting in a more difficult lock to pick. Picking order is more likely to be out of sequence. Add in security pins and the task is significantly harder, hence the suggestion to practice on an easy lock such as the Master No3, or Kwikset.

[lil_hacker]

does it make a differents if the pins are at the bottom of the lock? would that make it so the pins won't pop back up if u pick it?

[Chucklz]

Generally, you are feeling the same things, but if you can, just rotate the lock so that it is in the way you wish to pick.

[R0gue]

gravity dosent have any force or anything like that on the pins if thats what your thinking... either way, up or down, it will be the same, just my opinion...

[CitySpider]

gravity dosent have any force or anything like that on the pins if thats what your thinking... either way, up or down, it will be the same, just my opinion...

Your opinion is that gravity doesn't pull down on the pins?

Um, might want to review your physics a little bit, buddy.

[Chucklz]

R0gue, let me help you out here some

Fg= Gm1m2/r^2

There is a gravitational force between every object in the universe, yes even between top and bottom pins.

[canuck]

I think what is being pondered here is after the driver pin is set if the key pin will pop back up. Which it obviously won't if the pins are located at the bottom. Gravity will hold the key pin down as there is no force from the spring and the driver pin pushing it back up.
Gravity dictates that once the pin is set it will remain...well..closest to the ground. Whichever way within the lock that happens to be.
Did that make sense?

[mr lockpickman]

i've got it, and i've dun it, woo my first lock

[technik]

congratulations Mr Pickman