spring steel

[Bud Wiser]

I'm a bit confused on this thread. If it's about what material to make picks out of I'm interested but still am not sure what's being said here. So let me address my questions more directly, and if they do not apply to this thread for give me.

Which would be better to make picks from,

wiper inserts or piano strings?
in my area, replacement wipers all use plastic inserts and you have to either buy or find original wipers, where as piano strings can be bought at reasonable prices. (Can not find street cleaner bristles around here).

Is Spring Steel the best material for picks other then governement steel?

What other material (products) can be used for picks?

Thanks and again sorry if I misunderstood this thread.

[!*AMP*!]

THink of it...making lock picks from locks themselves, how novel.

[Shrub]

What on earth is goverment steel

Piano wire is best used for lever locks, as i am still unsure what the first page is on about i threw that in the mix,

Hacksaw blades are by far the best material to make home made picks from,

I havent any picks made from wiper inserts only tension wrenches,

Spring steel is not ideal no,

Stainless steel is also very good if you get the right grades,

If you can get the materials go for hacksaw blade for picks and wiper inserts for wrenches,

[Bud Wiser]

What on earth is goverment steel

Piano wire is best used for lever locks, as i am still unsure what the first page is on about i threw that in the mix,

Hacksaw blades are by far the best material to make home made picks from,

I havent any picks made from wiper inserts only tension wrenches,

Spring steel is not ideal no,

Stainless steel is also very good if you get the right grades,

If you can get the materials go for hacksaw blade for picks and wiper inserts for wrenches,

I use hacksaw blades and wiper inserts for picks.
I should have said government *grade* steel, Peterson advertises this for thier higher end picks, and assumed it must be a higher grade steel.

I've had mixed results using hacksaw blades, no doubt related to the quality of the blades. Some bend easily. No probs yet with wipter inserts although I knew that was not the best for picks.

As for piano strings, they can be purchased at different thicknesses. Would they be good for regular picks, or only thinner picks?

Finally, which is better, spring steel or stainless steel?

thanks.

[!*AMP*!]

quote from Shrub:

Spring steel is not ideal no,

Stainless steel is also very good if you get the right grades,

[Bud Wiser]

So would I be correct in understanding that stainless steel is better the spring steal? thx

[!*AMP*!]

That's wierd...I always liked spring steel because of it's thinness, yet strength...but maybe I have an improper perception of what spring steel actually is.

[Bud Wiser]

Ok I just found Shrubs tutorial for making picks, it helps some. great for making picks.
viewtopic.php?t=10398

reading all the threads and posts about pick material really isn't all that clear on what the best material is. Just because hacksaw blades are recommended the most doesn't mean it is the best, just the best *easiest* material to find. And manufacturer's really don't help much either, stainless steel, spring steel, gov grade steel.

Then there is the bogota (did I say it right) picks made from steel bristles! We have street cleaners here but I don't have the time to hunt them down and follow them around town

I can buy cheap stainless steel knives from a dollar store if I knew that was better then hacksaw blades. Frankly I think the subject of the materials and products we can use for picks needs more attention, may be a stickie. Using the search can be extremely time consuming as it spits out every post that has any word you enter in it! That can yield hundreds of threads to sift thru!

I think a clear precise explanation by some one knowledgable of the different grades of steel is in order. What grade is hacksaw blades, wiper inserts, stainless steel, etc., compared to the store bought picks. I realize it may not be a big thing for a lot of people, but I like to know the basic facts in every thing

[!*AMP*!]

Yes, that would help me out as well. I admit that I am slightly confused as to the different types as metal as well.

[Shrub]

I could write a 4 page guide on metals and the grades and what numbers are best for picks but it would mean nothing to anyone except the serious engineers on here so i wont waste my time,

Spring steel is ok to use but not the best for various reasons, its easily alters its properties with heat and less heat than you would see a hacksaw blade take, although some blades are in fact a form of spring steel,

There is no such thing as goverment steel or goverment grade steel its a sales ploy although i do believe the material he uses and calls that is a very good grade of metal but if you ask for such a thing at a steel supplier they will just look at you funny,

Hacksaw blades can be found in various materials but most on average will do for picks and as they are good dimensions already often reccomended, silicon carbide blades are the best in my opinion for picks,

Sweeper bristles i have little knowledge of as i dont have any but im guessing they are indeed a form of spring steel but a little too small for making decent picks from unless a separate handle is to be made,

Wiper inserts tend to be stainless steel, again a little small for big hands so possably a separate handle should be used,

Tool steel is too brittle,

Piano wire is ideal for lever locks but requires too much working to make a hand pick from if flattening, if simply useing and bending a hook on the end you may find they arent ideal unless you flatten the side of the bend to make it stiffer due to the size of wire to be used,

Most commercial picks tend to be made from a stainless steel and yes i would think a stainless steel butter knife is a good material to at least try and im sure would be great,

All this is mentioned many many times before in multiple threads, its good to use the word 'and' in the search to limit the results, theres also other search queeries that you can use to further limit your results,

We suggest hacksaw blades for many reasons, they are cheap, they are well sized, they are easy to work with, they are easy to reharden if made soft through over heating them whilst making them, they are tough and they dont snap (if made correctly), many many people before you/us/me have used them for picks with no problems, if you have issues then i suggest a look at your method of making them or the sizes you are making them to are at fault but mostly the main reason for picks bending or braking is heavy handed picking,

Its true that a proficient and good picker can pick locks with little more than paper clips and such like as they feel and understand the lock but as far as people new or lacking in skill a paper clip will never work, the same goes for poorly made picks,

Learn to pick well with the tools you can make, if you cant make good tools then buy some, i would always suggest buying at least a few commercial ones before anything else to actually learn how to pick,

Remember no matter how polished a pick is it doesnt mean its any good, over polishing can make the pick over heat and make it soft,
I see a lot of the picks on this site that are shined to a mirror finish and think i wouldnt even bother putting them in a lock, you judge yours of commercial ones which are made from differant materials and those materials shine natuarally, shineing a hacksaw blade to those standards doesnt make it work any better, its ok for showing off on a forum but doenst help in the lock, sure a well deburred pick will glide over the pins well and work better than one with a sharp edge but i see bogotas with almost angles on every edge and polished to within an inch of their excistance, i would expect these picks to not last, you dont have to keep going until all the rust pitting is removed from the pick to make a nice looking pick,

A nice pick in my opinion is one that has no sharp edges but not edges that have been 'de-sharpened' to the point of altering the shape of the tip, shiney doesnt mean jack, doesnt make it a better pick at all, in fact an over shined pick to me seems like the maker is hiding somthing like over heating discolouration when it was made,

The top and bottom of it s, if its metal and can take wear it should be fine for makign a pick from, its up to you all out there to try your best with what youve got, if you havent got much a hacksaw blade takes a lot of beating,

I will also add that a used hacksaw blade works better for makign picks than a brand new one in my opinion, the teeth can often be a separate part of the blade but once worked the blade does take on a slightly differant property, almost like a work hardening process,

I have made very few hand picks for cylinders as the commercial ones are so cheap and effective but the ones i have made are still with me and in the same condition as the day they were finished,

Ok ok ive gone on and on and made a simple answer in to a long winded one but the point im trying to make is best summed up by a popular saying over here, 'A bad workman always blames his tools' and i quite belive that, please dont think im doing anyone in this thread down, im not, im purely trying to put a point across that it doesnt actually really matter what you use as long as its up to the job, to work out if its up to the job take the advice from those that have proved them to be up to the job then practice practice practie,

Practice making tools,
Practice finishing tools fit for use,
Practice being light with your picks,
Practice picking well,
And if all else fails, practice learning to know when youve made a mistake and need to start it all again or move on to commercial picks,

Trying to reinvent the wheel at every opportunity until youve learnt the above will only succeed in wasting your time and effort,

[Bud Wiser]

Ok then, thanks much for another in depth reply. Most appreciated!! You packed a lot of useful info here, enough for me to read a couple of times to digest every thing. It was so good that I burped afterwards in a sign of being full!

I've got great commercial picks I purchased, but I am learning that making picks is just as much fun as picking locks. There seems to be a greater sense of accomplishment when I pick a lock from a pick I made. At least for me, right now. I think as one gains more experience in lock picking, one could better design their own custom picks for special locks.

Knowing a little more about the material helps me because it gives me the basic fundamental background I needed. I hate to feel like I'm playing in the dark. I realized that this may not be a big issue for a lot of people and that just about any material *could* be used.

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such a manor. I'm sure your explanation will be helpful to others too! I wish other more experienced forum members took the time to reply to questions as often as you do. I know when I am in a better position to contribute and help I will too. I just like to share knowledge.

I wish this forum allowed giving posters credits. That's when some one can agree or disagree and give out points. Those points are accumulated both positive and negatively and is a measure to see who is contributing more. Not that I believe people have to or must contribute, but it's nice to be able to reward those that do, and also give out negative points when some one is less then ideal in their posting, or when one strongly disagrees.

Any way I'm glad this thread came back to life because your last post reply adds greatly to the subject!

[Shrub]

Well i like to help and when its somthign i know about i like to keep going until i feel ive got my point across or the information required expalined,

As for the points system im not that bothered, im coming up to 7000 posts soon and i know a lot of them may not be that useful but its doesnt really matter (as long as i stay the top poster on site j/k)

If you really want i could bring into it tension/torsion tests, hardness testes and material break downs but its been touched on before and the thread just dies, its too much for your general noob i think and when you get better and more confident you simply learn to just have a go like you do,

Its great your in the band of done the commercial thing now doing the making thing, it is fun but does need the knowledge or at least a good understanding of the way things work before you can go down that route effectively,

Your a lot like me in that you have to know everything about any one particular thing before you carry on and do it for yourself, its the best way to learn i find and hence why i *seem* to know a lot about a lot of differant subjects, others sometimes see it as being a big head but i dont care,

[bpc293]

i was just trying to make a very thin pick a little thinner profile than the commercial slim picks but stronger i still have a heavy hand. i wanted to find an inexpensive material to use to attempt making such pick.
locknewbie21 made some before. i tryed, i made a descent one and i loved it all the room i had. sliding the pick in and barley touching the pins. and its stronger than a sothord slim. but its hit and miss for me. i was looking for something stronger than wiper inserts.

[bpc293]

locknewbie21 come in here and help me. lol

i'm kiding thanks guys

[Bud Wiser]

Just a quick update..

I purchased a 4 pc steak knife set at a dollar store, cost $1.

I was able to remove the plastic handle to remove the whole stainless steel blade. I used my dremel to cut a slice thru the center of the handle and then used a straight edge screw driver to pry it out.

As it turns out these knives are apprx the same thickness as my commercial picks. I made a quick small hook pick using my HPC pick as a guide. Used a marker to outline area for grinder, and fine tuned with dremel and files.

It works great! In fact I swear I can pick some locks easier with it. I'll throw up a picture later. Small hooks are easier for me to make so it's nothing to brag about or show off accept for size comparison and to announce that stainless steel knives make good material.

To make full size picks you need one steak knife. At 4 for a dollar that comes to 25 cents a pick. Not bad. Plus they are stainless steel. Even a heavy handed noob like me couldn't damage these