Hello from a newbie, and my first question

[ppc]

Hi everybody,

My name is Pierre, I currently reside in Belgium. I got into lockpicking a while ago because, where I work, many people forget the key to their padlocks, and each time this happens, we have to break the padlocks open, which is costly for the poor souls who forget their keys, and damages the bolt cutter quite quickly. Since they are cheap padlocks, I read about basic raking, made a couple of rakes and a torque wrench and in 20 seconds, I could do it easily enough. That a 5 euro padlock could be opened this easily intrigued me, so I read more about lockpicking, got me some more "secure" (read: more expensive) padlocks and played around. I made more picks and more wrenches, and I can get them all to open pin by pin given enough time (it's just for fun, I'm not in a hurry).

But now I have a problem : today I bought a 12 euro round Yale spring-assisted padlock (model P-130, shown here --> http://www.yalelock.com/Yale/Templates/ ... e85066a6f0 ). I didn't expect it to be anything special, but I just can't open it. Repeated raking with a light torque doesn't work, a good hard raking with heavy torque seems to set the pins, the tumbler starts turning 3 or 4 degrees then stops, and no amount of additional pin setting makes it budge, setting the pins one by one from the start does about the same thing, but I can't open it for the life of me and it's driving me nuts. The only thing that works is a bump key I made with the second key that came with the lock, but that's not fun.

Does anyone know what I'm missing here? I wouldn't think this padlock has anything special in it given the price, but then I don't know.

Thanks for any light you can shed!

[Krypos]

wow...what a first post. and welcome.

i assume you have been reading round the site for quite a while then eh?


since it is of the yale brand, then it probably has security pins. yale locks can be rather tricky sometimes, and very tricky for beginners.

so do a search for security pins and whatnot, that should give you some answers.

also, try using lighter tension, as opposed to heavy tension. with lighter tension, you can still set the pins, it takes some practice to do, but it is much better. (in most cases)

thats about all i can think of ATM. but ill post more if i think of it.

[Shrub]

It will have spool pins and probably in positions 2 and 4,

Look up security pins or spool pins to see more advice on those,

Simply put when single pin picking you will find that an incorrectly set spool pin will move the plug back slightly when you further push a pin you think youve set,

To counter this let of the tension very slightly and then push that pin up higher, if this doesnt work make a mental note that when pickign from a reset state you will have to lift that pin a bit higher,

Give it a quick rake to get to the point where the plugh turns a few degrees and then simply go in and try single picking, you should then find the spools and see the charecteristics ive mentioned above,

Welcome to the site,

[Shrub]

Lol Krypos the ninja sneeked in on me while i was typing, makes a change from me doing it to others lol

All good advice

[ppc]

wow...what a first post. and welcome.

i assume you have been reading round the site for quite a while then eh?

Actually I found this site 30 minutes ago. I got started with whatever I could find with Google. But I must say, from what I read here so far, I would have saved a lot of searching time if I had found this here site sooner. Pity...

since it is of the yale brand, then it probably has security pins. yale locks can be rather tricky sometimes, and very tricky for beginners.

so do a search for security pins and whatnot, that should give you some answers.

Okay I will. I didn't realize Yale used security pins in cheap locks like this one. I thought the only security was the mildly annoying keyway.

also, try using lighter tension, as opposed to heavy tension. with lighter tension, you can still set the pins, it takes some practice to do, but it is much better. (in most cases)

Apparently there's a lot of slop in the tumbler: I have to turn it a fraction of a degree (and fight the spring) until the pins get stuck, then back the tension down without turning the tumbler until all the pins free up but one, so I can start working that one with the pick. Otherwise nothing happens at all.

thats about all i can think of ATM. but ill post more if i think of it.

Thanks for your answer. I can see lockpicking is indeed a fun and interesting pastime

[Shrub]

Apparently there's a lot of slop in the tumbler: I have to turn it a fraction of a degree (and fight the spring) until the pins get stuck, then back the tension down without turning the tumbler until all the pins free up but one, so I can start working that one with the pick. Otherwise nothing happens at all.

Thats exactally how you SPP so well done for sorting it out yourself,

[ppc]

Thats exactally how you SPP so well done for sorting it out yourself,

Thanks. At least I know I'm not thinking the wrong way.
I think I can feel what you describe with the spool pins, but I reckon my pick isn't quite the right shape : I have to "roll around" the keyway as I move up and down and the end of the pick might be a bit too blunt for that. I'll probably try to reshape it, bend it sideway a little and temper it harder tomorrow, maybe I'll have more luck feeling the incriminating pins better.

Hopefully it won't be too long until I get this thing opened. Thanks for the advice, this is much appreciated!

[Krypos]

Lol Krypos the ninja sneeked in on me while i was typing, makes a change from me doing it to others lol

All good advice

oh yeah! krypos the ninja. thats like me at work, cept im paul the ninja. ya! but really, i sneak up on everyone at work and scare the poop outta them all the time, its a ball.

back on topic though, i dont know much about modifying picks, but what kind of picks are you using?

glad to hear our advice has helped.

[ppc]

back on topic though, i dont know much about modifying picks, but what kind of picks are you using?

My picks are home-brew. They're made of CK-75 spring steel. I don't know how professional picks should look like, so I roughly file a shape, try it in a new lock, and adjust the shape little by little until I'm satisfied that it slides well and gives me a clear feedback of what's going on with the pins. Then I harden and temper it. I don't know if this is the kosher way of making picks, but it seems to work for me.

[Krypos]

post some pics please, i would be most tickled to see what they look like as you said you dont know what commercial picks look like.

I don't know how professional picks should look like...

[alex20005uk]

Cheers Shrub, that little low-down on spools just finally helped my pick my 2 spool yale cylinder. that little bugger took days!!!!!!!!!!

Think it may have been luck - better have another go

[Shrub]

Nice one

[raimundo]

a couple of things for ppc in belguim, you will want to make any pick that is working for you in a couple of sizes, for example, if you like a hook, three hooks of graded sizes would be good to have, you have learned to roll the pick a bit to make it work around the keyway wards, thats good but you may want a slightly smaller hook, in making picks, very slight modifications in size do have a lot of meaning, personally my idea is that one should makepick tips in the middle sizes to the cuts of the key, since a high or low setting pin can be manipulated by using the loose fit of the pick as compared to the keyway filled with key.
you mention hardening your pick, I don't know this steel you mention but you will not want a pick to break off inside a lock, so hardening is not recomended if you can avoid it.
and before hardening, use some metal cutting sandpaper to round and smooth the pick tip and shaft, a rough cut pick can file away brasspins, and you will find the brass on the pick tip, this also indicates that the keyway is becoming scarred and the pins are being chewed on. The 90 degree edges of the pick and shaft are going to cause working characteristics that are not helpful, but rounding and sanding will make a better pick.

[New-York-Locksmith]

man - you need to take some photos if you want accurate and sufficient help...

[cbuk2k]

I find that rather than scrubbing with a rake, use one that has a similar profile to a key, a small tension tool and pull the pick out rapidly. Try varying the time when you apply the tension when you get the knack you can open them quite quickly.

I’ve never tried Yale but the Abus and generic I have it works nicely on. I haven’t tried it on that many locks so may just be a fluke. I think it must work more like bumping than raking.