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Bumping ehh? Try this:O)

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Bumping ehh? Try this:O)

Postby LockNewbie21 » 8 Sep 2006 7:08

Please I know its long.. try and subdue your ADD and read it all..thanks 8)

Alright.. so i don;t really like bumping.. but I was thinking as i was reading yet another article on it and began to think of what the real flaw was.

Ok Here we go, before i start relize this wont make it bump proof. But since theoretically the entire bumping principal is based on Newtons Laws of the transfer of motion.. and vaugley written, this theory can be exploited by adding some plus's and minus's to generate a diffrent outcome.. or force needed, and in a cost effective way for a consumer and a lockie :)

Okay, so i was looking at what makes locks suck and fall victim to Bumping, and it wasn't pins nor tollerences, but the springs becuase the most variables rely on springs within a pin tumber. The metal, the closness of the coils all add up to the downward pressure exerted n the top pins.

So to solve this problem its a two stepper. First we only replace the springs in the lock to a close coiled very very hard metal. So the downward pressure excerted on the pins is basically 10 to 20 times the normal.. maybe more.. i havent tested it yet. Don;t freak rember theres two parts :P

Now the other problem is the key, as all keys are cut with accute peaks. Think of a mountian range.. so we change this with either a modified key machine.. or just some files. And turn the mountain range into hills.. so to speak :wink: .

I am talking about a rounded key. So when inserted into the lock, the pin breakdown is much less cut down... no sharp edges. You can also subside with hardened steel pins I suppose.. But i am going for company and consumer friendly here so bere with me.


So now goign back to the Physics law, we now have changed the equation. essintially taking the slight bump to more of a serious blow. So.. theoretically, it could be bumped.. we just manipulated the pressure to the pins to generate enough energy to lift the pins..IE. match the newer spring pressure. Like i said if its written vaugley it can be bent or even broken.. in this case we bent the it.

So cost? 5 or h/e many springs are int he lock. And if theres no key machine, a few needle files. SO anyone can do it and it will seriously hinder bumping to the point were the pressure needed to lift the pins or make them recess in the pin chambers would be so large of a blow that it would more or less just break the lock. And if a crappy Bump key was used.. or any with accute peaks were used.. it would get stuff or jsut not work.. and a round key woulnd't work.. beacuse its based on the spring pressure.. gotta love vauge physics :P

Granted as with all pin tumblers there will be pin corosion.. thats life. The rounded peaks will raise all pins and follow standard code.. jsut a diffrent shape cutting this down given the new pressure. Combined with say a well made lock could also boast a rating :wink:


So basically my claim is its not the locks pins nor tolleneces but the springs. As there flexing allows the pins to recess all at once.. alowign the principal to fall into place and work like a charm.

So the locks, keys, warding, constuction, and inner working order all stay consistant as they have though out history.. just a little tweaking.

Simply change springs and shape of key. Simple as bumping is.

Not full proof but it seems more plausable than any other idea I've read or came up with.


There you go, a rarity I Made a contribution :D


Have a good one fella's and feel free to comment.


Andy
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Postby LockNewbie21 » 8 Sep 2006 7:40

Forgot to add.. its most practical with kwicks and schlages and comercial and residential.. hihsecurtiy locks.. well i suppose you could do this to a multi lock.. but hwo knows.
:D
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Postby digital_blue » 8 Sep 2006 10:48

I don't think that stronger springs would be able to prevent bumping. The amount of force applied while bumping would be enough to overcome even a really strong spring.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

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Postby UWSDWF » 8 Sep 2006 10:54

what about a lock fitted with a mercury switch hooked up to <insert you own electronicly controlled defence system> so when the lock was bumped with any significant force it would trigger it?
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Postby Shrub » 8 Sep 2006 11:22

A glass pin?
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Postby machinist » 8 Sep 2006 11:27

With a stronger set of springs your going to get increased wear meaning those soft brass keys that last 15 years aren't going to last as long not to mention the brass pins too. All that is going to have to be made out of case hardened steel.
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Postby LockNewbie21 » 8 Sep 2006 16:20

I figure that.. with the wear and tear deal.

This was all i could see as a viale option... lol becuase ia m not an engineer.. just kinda thought about it.

Appreciate the reply's guys :)
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Postby REparsed » 3 Oct 2006 15:26

What about ONE stronger spring and leave the rest as is? Maybe put the stronger spring towards the back of the cylinder so that pin has less key to travel over.

The dissimilar spring tensions might also make it more difficult to bump.
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Postby LockNewbie21 » 3 Oct 2006 15:47

I really like that idea actually well said mate :)
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Postby globallockytoo » 4 Oct 2006 0:05

Once again, I think you are on the right track here, except that bumping requires that there be at least two pins in each chamber. A bottom pin and a top pin (driver). Whilst your theory indeed has it's merits, db is right...it doesnt matter how much more pressure is applied by the springs...as long as a shear line can be artificially created, bumping will be an effect that can be caused. Nice try.
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Postby Biaxial Ranger » 4 Oct 2006 17:44

Another thing I thought of reading this, is that most newer, cheaper cylinders are going to have either a spring fit, press fit or clamp on cap and on many of these a serious increase in spring pressure can cause these caps to pop off after some use.
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Postby destroyer125 » 4 Oct 2006 19:29

ive been playing with bumping, the more sloppy the internals of the lock is, the harder it is to bump. Locks with smooth sliding internals in the more expensive locks are amazingly easy to bump its unbelievable.

Bumping is easy to learn, but ive noticed it is hard to be a consistant bumper, each lock needs to be hit just right, cheap masterlock padlocks are annoying to bump, since the locking setup sits freely and slopply in the metal casing, its hard to get a solid hit.
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Postby globallockytoo » 4 Oct 2006 19:37

One of the reasons bumping never caught on as a regular weapon in the locksmiths arsenal of tricks is because of it's inconsistency....picking on the other hand is alot more consistent across a broad range of lock cylinder types.

Whilst I understand peoples amazement at the ease of bumping (in general), I, like alot of locksmiths, am dismayed and somewhat disappointed that this information was released to the general public. Not withstanding the security implications of releasing bumping information and the rights of people to know about the inconsistencies in the design of the modern pin tumbler method, the primary reason for not having all this information out there IMHO...was to not overtly concern the public by the misconception that Linus Yale's modern pin tumbler principle was secure.

Hmmmmm....
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Postby sillious » 10 Nov 2006 0:50

I have been looking at the bumping video's on youtube, and it certainly worries me. I actually had a bump key in a kit i got years ago from a friend, but never knew what it was for...

Lock Picking is an art, bumping is more for the less trusted of society. If someone can find me a bump proof lock I will go and replace the ones on my house without a question.

Just my 2 cents.
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Postby d_goldsmith » 10 Nov 2006 1:01

Linus Yale Jr. :wink:
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