Master Lock Experiment

[Coonah]

Im sure that this has come up somewhere.....

I had found a master lock (brand name) combo lock laying around and was wondering what the combo was. I found some sites that explained a method by pulling up on the "U" part of the lock while turnung it. There are 12 stoping points. I wrote them all down, and then crossed out the ones that didn't stop on a number (turning it left or right). It turned out that out of the remaing 7 or so numbers, three of them were the numbers to the lock. I was wondering if some other people would enjoy trying out this experiment, or if they had already had somethinglike this happen. I sure hoipe it wasn't coincedence.
Please post your findings.

[UWSDWF]

yep thats one of the flaws there are a few posts on this subject and a mathimatical therom too

[Anarx]

Being new here myself i have also found a Master Combo lock.

for some strange reason i was able to listen to the locking plates and hearing clicks some louder then others.. with the way they are desigend it would seem that this Might work but i was wondering if it is posabile to listen to it to try and get the combanation.

I figure i could allways do it the smart mans way but i've allways wondered how one would go about doing this by listening to the tumblers.

Just my thoughts

Jess

[Krypos]

sorry anarx, but that probably wont work. i am in the process of finding a faster way to crack said locks, and the clicks you hear are the cams engaging the next one, this does not correlate to the gap being under the locking mechanism, what it does mean is that you are spinning 1, 2 or all three cams.

note* the two bottom cams (the first and second number in the combo) have the same spacing as every other lock, so the distance from the opening on cam 1 to the opening on cam 2 is the same for every lock, however, this means very little as even an inch of difference in the third cam means all the numbers are different.

im working on it as of lately, ill post any amazing findings.

also, good thinking. the clicks dont DIRECTLY correlate to it, but may be vital to finding it faster with some modification and whatnot.

[ericm115]

Krypos,

Are you trying the safe manipulation technique (ie: the one detailed by Matt Blaze) on these locks? I've thought of trying it since it's such a similar mechanism. Every time I have free time though, I end up just picking locks. dumb locks.


em

[shararm]

I just use a good old fashion shim.

[Krypos]

Krypos,

Are you trying the safe manipulation technique (ie: the one detailed by Matt Blaze) on these locks? I've thought of trying it since it's such a similar mechanism. Every time I have free time though, I end up just picking locks. dumb locks.


em

ahem. this may sound odd.

JUST BECAUSE MY POST COUNT IS NEARING 1,000, DO NOT THINK I KNOW ANYTHING.

i dont have access to the advanced section...i know...its pathetic. but like 3/4 of my posts are crap posts. and so i didnt meet the requirements for advanced section access.

so i might have the safe manipulation paper by matt blaze (as i have a crapload of pdfs etc i havent gone through) but i havent read it to my knowledge. and i dont know that ive even heard of it.

so maybe im even smarter than i look if im guessing something i dont know that matt blaze has written a paper for. sweet.

so i dont know....you tell me if im talking about the safe manipulation technique detailed by matt blaze.

pms are cool too.

shararm- shims are great for fast openings, but are useless if you are just wanting the combo. but yes.

[New-York-Locksmith]

shararm is right! i use old school shim

[Anarx]

Well i was just hoping for a slightly more intresting way to retreave the combanation.. something with a little more fennese then just brute forcing 100 combos on the lock...

Just me thoughts on this

[ericm115]

Krypos,

Check out:

http://www.crypto.com/papers/safelocks.pdf

It's a long but very well written article. He details the method fairly well. I think this is the standard for safe manipulation. Note the similarities in this and the masterlock construction. It seems as though this same manipulation technique could be used to find the combo to a combolock...


Anyone heard of such a thing?

(ps.. this isn't about safecracking... its about masterlocks... so please don't lock the thread )

em

[lockedin]

shararm- shims are great for fast openings, but are useless if you are just wanting the combo. but yes.

At least for me, shims have been the quickest way to finding the combo. After opening it I look inside until the three correct gates align at the opening, tranpose them to the opposing side, and apply pressure on the locking pawl while trying approximate numbers until the locking pawl lifts, in which case I know I have the correct combination.

[Krypos]

shararm- shims are great for fast openings, but are useless if you are just wanting the combo. but yes.

At least for me, shims have been the quickest way to finding the combo. After opening it I look inside until the three correct gates align at the opening, tranpose them to the opposing side, and apply pressure on the locking pawl while trying approximate numbers until the locking pawl lifts, in which case I know I have the correct combination.

if that works...then great...im looking for a way to do it with out shimming...shimming has its place, but i prefer to not have to A) carry shims B) make shims on the spot C) build some sort of makeshift shim on the spot.

if it works for you....i wont say its wrong...im just trying to expand.

[Coonah]

Thanks for the feedbacl so far.

Just something else i noticed in order to eleminate the number of combos you have to try: out of thethree numbers in a lock, the last digit of two of them is the same. Prove me wrong please.

[Krypos]

Thanks for the feedbacl so far.

Just something else i noticed in order to eleminate the number of combos you have to try: out of thethree numbers in a lock, the last digit of two of them is the same. Prove me wrong please.

what? as in you have a combo of like 22-32-6? hmm. i should look into this. this could be another anomaly directly caused by the fact that the 1st and 2nd cams are spaced the same. is it always the first and second digits you notice?

::::::DEEPLY INVOLVED AND PAYING ATTENTION::::::

[Johnny P]

Safe locks and Master padlocks are two completely different animals. what works on an S&G 3 wheel safe combination lock will not work of a master padlock.