Most Interesting Lock I Own, With Decent Photos

[Schuyler]

So!

The first meeting of TOOOL Boston was yesterday. It ended up being just Eric and I but it was a very good time and I had opportunity to learn a LOT. In the process of fishing through my crate of locks I found this guy:



As you can see, the key goes in with the flat of it manipulating the pins. Interesting right off the bat! I do wish I had a key for it a bit disappointing that I don't. So, I got home from the meeting and decided to take it apart.




In the bottom of the lock there are 4 plugs. (only three pictured, as 1 was disappeared by my girlfriend, but she has been very helpful with other facets of this, like loaning me a nice camera for the pictures. I believe I'll be able to make another one.)


Bottom channel of the lock.

It's a 5 pin lock, you can see the chambers here. (so why only 4 plugs?)

Um...these are at the far end of the keyway and appear to fit into a long, shallow channel in the housing of the lock, but I didn't immediately understand their use. I would assume that it is a secondary locking mechanism, but I didn't see any means of use. Odd.

I should have shot this one from the otherway around to show that channel

OK! Now it gets very interesting. Check out these swank bottom pins:

Mushroomed bottom pins!

and this very cool driver:



As you can see each ring moves and seperates pretty easily. Very cool anti-picking and with all that wiggle room it seems like it could deaden transfer of energy enough to be bump-resistant.

But if you want to see something really bump/pick gun resistant? (or maybe it has another purpose...)


I'm not sure how clear those will turn up, but inside each one is a magnet! I was very excited to discover that!



and all of the pins and springs together. As you can see it did have 1 normal bottom pin (well, normal save for the thin design of the bottomost part.) and a normal top pin as well.

Anyhow, if any of you have an insight as to who made this lock/what it was used in, I'd really appreciate the info.

[zeke79]

Are the pins actually magnetic? They appear to be anti drill pins similar to what comes in UL437 schlage primus locks from the factory in the upper chambers.

As far as the lock itself goes I am drawing a blank at the moment though the shape of the bottom pins seems familiar to me.

[Schuyler]

Hmmm...either they are magnetic, or they are my picks have become magnetized, which is entirely possible, as I actually work with small, but powerful magnets on a regular basis and may have had both in my pocket at the same time.

So, let's assume they are anti-drill. That leads me to wonder what the proper position of pins is? Because those little plugs started to fall while I was removing the ... plug I scrambled to catch everything and lost track of the order. Would the drill resistant bottom pins line up with the drill resistant top pins? or would they be more scattered throughout?

Also, would small, but powerful magnets act as a comealong to prevent bumping? Would they have other, negative effects on the lock?

I'm glad you responded, as the cool driver pins reminded me of the pin you recently made.

[zeke79]

Hmmm...either they are magnetic, or they are my picks have become magnetized, which is entirely possible, as I actually work with small, but powerful magnets on a regular basis and may have had both in my pocket at the same time.

So, let's assume they are anti-drill. That leads me to wonder what the proper position of pins is? Because those little plugs started to fall while I was removing the ... plug I scrambled to catch everything and lost track of the order. Would the drill resistant bottom pins line up with the drill resistant top pins? or would they be more scattered throughout?

Also, would small, but powerful magnets act as a comealong to prevent bumping? Would they have other, negative effects on the lock?

I'm glad you responded, as the cool driver pins reminded me of the pin you recently made.

Anti drill pins should be located deep into the lock as this makes them harder to reach and to drill in most cases. It requires your drilling to be precisely inline with the pin stack so the bit does not deflect off the hardened pin when it is reached.

As far as magnetic pins as a bump deterent I think the idea has merit if the magnets could be made powerful enough. The problem is that if they did indeed bounce and would happen to slam back together the mangets would deteriorate and become ineffective. I think magents that small would be hard to get in the powers required even if dealing with rare earth magnets which are very brittle.

I do not think they would have any negative impacts on the lock as long as the correct alloys were used for the springs and plug/shell housings. Though hardened inserts may cause some problems with pins sticking at shear line or sticking above shear line possibly.

Just a few thoughts.

[Schuyler]

mmm, very interesting. As Eric said to me yesterday, "That guy knows his (expletive deleted )"

I hadn't thought of the depletion of the magnets. I may play around with the idea here at the shop, however, as I have the tools immediately available to me.

[greyman]

It looks a hell of a lot like DOM ix-5 from the pin shape.

[zeke79]

I was leaning towards DOM myself too. It is missing the second row of pins but that is common on the US style KIK lock due to the bible being narrow.

Either way, some very cool top pins .

[Schuyler]

So, is the second row of pins what would have fit into the channel I mentioned? Or no?

Also, what are the 4 little plugs for, and do you know why there are only 4 of them?

[raimundo]

try this one out, Zeke, put an anti drill pin in the plug, and behind it a rare earth magnet, inset into the plug, in every pin column put one steel pin and one brass pin, but some of the steel pins as top pins, (they wear the key as bottom pins) and deep in the lock where wear is less, steel bottom pins, the only thing that could go wrong, would be rust, so maybe some magnetic/stainless alloy
generally locks are made of brass or bronze for these reasons, it machines well and goes easy on the cutting tools, it oxidizes but does not really rust, and finally, its sort of like self lubricating, brass rubbing on brass will not cut, just burnish (polish itself smooth) and the internal oxidation even in sanfranciscos sunset district,(where all the brass is green) will not cause a problem if the lock is in everyday use.

[raimundo]

forgot this in the last post, the magnet will act on the steel pins, but only the steel pins are movable parts, the magnet is just a bumpkey debumper, of course while picking, it will hold steel bottompins in place after picking maybe

[zeke79]

Ray, when I have a few free minutes I'll give this a try on a lock if I have the proper size magnets laying around as i am not sure I do.

Schuyler,

The second row of pins I mentioned in DOM locks were side by side in the top of the plug. This was only done in Euro Profile locks since the shell or bible area was wide enough to accomodate the pin stacks.

When this is done however, the pin stacks are not round but special shaped to keep them from rotating in their chambers since they must remain in position to keep their raidius properly set to turn when brought to shear line since they are not located on the centerline of the bible or shell. I hope that makes sense since it is kind of hard to explain without pictures.

The best way I can explain it is imagine taking a normal pin tumbler stack and moving it to the extreme edge of the plug and noting how the top of the pins would have to be shaped to allow the plug to turn. The pins would have to remain in that rotation constantly. Imagine now if the pins were to rotate 180 degrees in their chambers. Even when lifted with the proper key you can see that the plug would not rotate.

Hope that atleast makes some sense.

[Schuyler]

I've got an idea of that in my head. I'm going to read it again a few times to be sure

[zeke79]

I knew I had seen pictures somewhere. Try reading Han Fey's Dom article on Toool . It will show you some detail of what I am describing.

[pH]

Schuyler,

Could you send me info about getting involved in TOOOL Boston? I've been keeping tabs on toool.us but maybe you guys organized the event through the forums but those forums are invite only

[bembel]

I've seen such pins in a DOM euro cylinder.
The rings look cool, but I don't think they make it much more pick resistant (at least I can pick my DOM without difficulties).