walk away or drill

by **lost profit** » 13 Sep 2006 3:06

hello guys ime a part time locksmith of 18 months ive made a few mistakes along the way but mostly i try to be proffessioal polite and not greedy . ive come across some pretty desperate house holders in the past ive had men begging me not to let them down when ive already told them ime on my way ,and ive had a couple of crying women who have lost their keys and have not got any spares and ive lost count of the lovers tiffs were the womans gone away for a few days with the kids and the ex boyfriend has changed all the locks. ive researched this site for info and am surprised at the responce at drilling locks ie DONT DO IT
when i see children huddled in a doorwayat night i swollow my pride and drill ive had women desperate for the toilet when i get there i drill ,and ive even been told to drill the lock by the cutomers because they want the lock changed anyway for security reasons . ive only rekeyed one lock and that was for a drunk who was sick of getting locked out and having to redistribute new keys to his kin.can you tell me is the way i do my job realy that wrong or would you do what i do cheers

by **devildog** » 13 Sep 2006 3:14

You're right, no worries: you do what you think is in the customer's best interests, THAT is your job.

by **pinky** » 13 Sep 2006 3:14

If practiced and tooled correctly, its often far quicker to pick the lock, certainly quicker overall than drilling.

if in the case of a nasty cylinder with lost keys, and replacement required anyway, then no harm in drilling, but as has been proven on countless occasions with the right tools and a practiced and refined skill, picking is overall far quicker than the drill, and nasty time consuming errors dont happen when picking.

by **devildog** » 13 Sep 2006 3:16

Yes, quite right, and if you're not skilled enough to pick it open faster than you can drill then the right thing to do is:

1. Drill it.

2. Practice picking--a lot!

Sorry, Pinky is quite right, I'm just saying that, under the circumstances, you did the right thing AT THE TIME. You should also improve your picking skills so that you can get those locks open even faster for your customers next time, and there's the added bonus of not destroying their locks.

by **linty** » 13 Sep 2006 6:46

this site is a lock picking site. we frown upon drilling for that reason only. if you were on a more locksmith-oriented forum the views would probably be less critical on drilling.

your job is to get the door open one way or another, however you will be happier charging a service call for a 5 minute picking job instead of a much slower drilling and replacement job, and your customers should be happier for not having to pay for a new lock.

walking away is not something a locksmith should do when a client is still stuck outside.

by **pinky** » 13 Sep 2006 7:59

There are times i agree the drill is necessary;

1) faulty or siezed lock
2) troublesome cylinder and is to be replaced anyway

The other argument of course, is should someone who cannot pick a cylinder as quickly or if not quicker than drilling it be trading as a locksmith? especially with the pick guns on the market today that facilitate swift entry in seconds and minutes to most cylinders.
This isnt knocking the author as i dont know what cylinders he was drilling, if a chubb 4L67 for instance, id agree much quicker to drill, but with only a few exceptions, picking most cylinders is almost always quicker than drilling, and if trading 18 months , id expect even a part time guy to have developed these skills, but as i say, i dont know which locks are being refered to.

as for BS locks, with the CB pick and safeventures decoders, these to can almost always be picked quicker than the drill, i know the decoders are dear, but the cb pick and other curtain picks are a very cheap option, but require skill, but skill any would be locksmith should be working to.

but the principle remains the same , should anyone not able to pick these , be trading as a locksmith at all, after all most still charge locksmith rates and for the locks, does the consumer not deserve a locksmith if paying for one ?

but its not the guys learning on the door and drilling that are at fault, but the system that lets anyone trade as a locksmith regardless of what they do.

For any student locksmith training on the door, who drills as they lack the skill to pick it, then as long as they do not charge for the lock replacement, and make good any damage free, then i see no problem with them using the drill, as the consumer pays the same as if picked, so little wrong with trading this way.

but no i dont agree that its ok to drill if a guy advertising just lacks ability to pick or cannot be bothered to learn to pick a lock, as if advertising as a locksmith and trading as a locksmith then these skills are necessary, and it should not be the customer who bears the cost.

by **mrdan** » 13 Sep 2006 10:19

Yes, especially when the customer requests it. Also if the is an emergency loss of life or property would be hard to forgive if you are so he!! bent on picking that you could have prevented such by drilling.

My 2cents

by **CJM** » 13 Sep 2006 10:56

I accept this is a picking site so drilling is of course frowned upon as it should be. But there is a time and a place for drilling a lock regardless of skill ie: deadbolt so tight in the frame it wont pick, as customer kicked it. I accept this fact and unlike some other locksmiths who say otherwise (you know who you are) I AM A REAL TIME SERVED 17 YEARS IN THE TRADE LOCKSMITH, who actually has some experience of the reality of the job.

by **Bud Wiser** » 13 Sep 2006 13:17

mrdan wrote:Yes, especially when the customer requests it. Also if the is an emergency loss of life or property would be hard to forgive if you are so he!! bent on picking that you could have prevented such by drilling.

My 2cents

well if it's life or death, my suggestion would be to kick the door down, even faster then drilling

by **lost profit** » 13 Sep 2006 13:39

thanks for your replys i understand this is more of a pickers forum .and thats a good point it is quicker to pick than drill a pin tumbler most of the time but the last one i drilled was an old black leg where the bolt threw to the right it was a guy who had come from a night club he had a cab waiting and could not pay him untill i let him in ,i removed the door handle id ed the lock and drilled the stump out ,sorry if this upsets any one ,and idont profess to be the best picker in town but i could not have picked this lock faster than drilling it.ime shareing my exsperiences because i want to be good at this . idont know any locksmiths and this is the only forum i know where i can talk to other lockies. some times when people are hanging round the doorway i do find it off putting and it takes me longer to pick the lock does this happen to all lockies .and does it go away with exsperience

by **bonez** » 13 Sep 2006 13:43

fill in your profile so we now where you are!!!

by **pinky** » 13 Sep 2006 14:45

you said in a previous post that you had all the cb range of curtain picks, well the 5g picks all legge new and old with a little practice in under 2 to 3 mins on right or left, im sure 2 to 3 minutes would have been acceptable to your customer, as i dare say would drilling the lock but leaving the key and lock still working.

Why Stump? is it not less destructive to drill for gate ?

The legge is one of the only locks when drilling on the right that is as easy to drill for gate as it is on left, you make a small hole and dont even touch the bolt, lift levers and turn curtain to open in same time as drilling stump.

my advice , if you have the cb picks, then practice both legge and ers as both are simple picks on right or left of door, and will become as quick for you if not quicker than drilling.

by **Schuyler** » 13 Sep 2006 15:10

lost profit wrote:thanks for your replys i understand this is more of a pickers forum .and thats a good point it is quicker to pick than drill a pin tumbler most of the time but the last one i drilled was an old black leg where the bolt threw to the right it was a guy who had come from a night club he had a cab waiting and could not pay him untill i let him in ,i removed the door handle id ed the lock and drilled the stump out ,sorry if this upsets any one ,and idont profess to be the best picker in town but i could not have picked this lock faster than drilling it.ime shareing my exsperiences because i want to be good at this . idont know any locksmiths and this is the only forum i know where i can talk to other lockies. some times when people are hanging round the doorway i do find it off putting and it takes me longer to pick the lock does this happen to all lockies .and does it go away with exsperience

Heh, happens to everyone, lockie or not. Performance anxiety, I think people talk about it pretty often around here. Some drunks in a bar knew I picked and asked me to pick a number 3 masterlock not long ago. I had my picks on me, I knew the barstaff and they were encouraging me to do it as well. (it was one of my own masterlocks, I keep it, and a few other padlocks I pick regularly, on a strap for my laptop)

So, I gave in, pulled out the picks, everyone was very exciting.

I swear, while I wasn't looking someone must have switched locks with me, as I took a solid 3-5 minutes (which of course feels like many many hours with a bunch of hooting drunks and several of your friends standing aroud watching you) to accomplish nothing. I didn't get it open! I apologized, there was some good natured ribbing and some legitimate disappointment, but I went back to my table.

There, sitting with my friends, eating pizza and having a beer? I picked it with my half diamond in seconds. I knew better than to go back and try showing off again, I'm sure it would have become impossible again

Kudos for trying to get better at your craft. When answers surprise you, don't let it frustrate you, just think on them. You definately seem to have the proper motivation behind your work.

Best of luck

by **lost profit** » 13 Sep 2006 16:49

pinky ime sorry i dont pick well under pressure but i tried to weigh the situation up and the guy was more worried about the waiting taxi cost than the price of a new lock which he had lost his key to anyway. i have got the cb picks him and his wife susie have just emailed me inviting me to join there new forum colti i deal with chris a lot he sends my picks through duffels. thanks to you guys who give me positive feedback, support and encouragement in my endeavours to be a better lockie

by **pinky** » 13 Sep 2006 18:06

dont appolagise, if your comfortable drilling stumps out, then its your business .
many people go to bits on the door, when under pressure, many drill for this reason, but most drill gates and not stumps with no bigger than a 4mm bit.

forget the pressure, if you can pick a legge on the bench, then you can do it on the door.

There are legitimate reasons for using the drill, but for speed isnt one that holds water.
the important thing is that you realise you need to improve your opening skills and practice, its far easier than many think, just takes time and commitment.

most would rather pick a legge under pressure than fresh fit a lock in ally, or fit apg locks in glass, but all are skills we must know to be a locksmith and charge locksmith rates.

you want to open quickly for the right reasons, but maybe you want to also polish your picking for the right reasons too lets face it anyone with a drill can drill open a lock, better to gain an edge and be the guy who picks it quicker, and it takes no more than practice, the industry is full of man with drill, just depends which you want to be.

its common knowledge that i hate the drill when not needed, but admire the guy trying hard to move on and change, so no dig has been aimed at you, but at the comment of drilling because its quicker, as this just isnt so, no matter what way its dressed up.

walk away or drill

walk away or drill

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