Couple of Questions from the new guy (that's me...)

[mcp]

Hey, I've been reading this site for a bit now and just now registered, so I figured it was about time I got around to posting. I'm sort of writing as I go so this may get a little long, feel free to skip as much as you want.

Anyways, just as some background to myself. I've been interested in locks and general security for quite some time but only recently have I actually started looking into lockpicking specifically. As of right now I don't have any lockpicks or really had a chance to make any (or buy...I'm broke) so all my questions are really just hypothetical at this point.

So here goes:

First off like I said earlier I've read this site and others (MIT guide, etc, etc.) so I have a fairly good idea in my head about locks and how they work without any practical application. But what I was wondering the other day was how hard is it really to break a lock. Not as in smashing it with a hammer type of thing (though that can be interesting too I suppose) but rather when picking a lock, what are actual chances of breaking it. If you happened to push the whole pin stack above the shear line (obviously pushing WAY too hard) and picked the lock what would happen. That sort of thing. I realize this is sort of an open-ended question, but I'm a curious sort of guy!

Secondly a question for locksmiths or other smart guys out there, I understand the whole deal with getting apprenticeship and how to ask and who to ask, etc. etc. if I was interested in working for a locksmith. My real question is this: How would it look from a locksmith's point of view when I went to ask for work, knowing off the bat (because I'd tell them) that I'd really be looking for part-time work as something I would enjoy doing to make extra cash. What it comes down to is that I wouldn't want to waste his or my time. I didn't really explain this second question all that well, so I hope someone understands what I'm getting at.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for any responses. It's great finally getting my first post out of the way!

[Chucklz]

Welcome to the forum. Its good to have lurkers come and join the fold.

About your picking question. Almost every lock has a bible, or upper chamber, small enough that it is not possible to push all of the spring, top pin, and bottom pin(s) into the chamber when keyed correctly. If the lock is poorly designed, then it is possible to make a comb tool that looks something like this

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And with this tool to push the pins into the bible and thus open the lock. It is interesting to note that the very first Medeco locks were succeptable to this attack. Billy B. Edwards relates that on the very morning Medeco discovered the attack, production was stopped and the current generation of Allen screw pin retaining mechanism was developed and installed. (BBE by the way is very well known and regarded in the industry, and has worked on the design of many high security locks).

About talking to the locksmith, I am not a locksmith, but I have known a few. Be honest, and be willing to do shop work and coffee runs, at least in the beginning.

[Varjeal]

I'll tackle the locksmith part of the question, just cause I are one. Anyways, the fact is that a potential employer is just that; a potential employer. You need to approach a locksmith in the same way you would for any other job you want.

You present yourself in as professional a manner as possible, conduct yourself as such with confidence and have a genuine desire to succeed and do well in your job. A locksmith (like any other employer) is going to ask you specfic questions about things that are important to them.

For locksmithing, it'll be general things like mechanical aptitude, are you reliable? Can you handle money?, are you a good problem solver?, are you willing to learn?, stuff like that. Few locksmiths are going to ask what your picking ability is like, or if you can tear-down a Unican 1000 to it's bare bones and reassemble it in under 3minutes.

If you can show yourself to be intelligent, presentable, confident, trainable, a good communicator, and have the ability to solve problems in a professional manner, you're already more than halfway to becoming a locksmith, and it'll show.

[mcp]

Hey, thanks for the quick responses. I've found out today that I actually might be able to have access to a grinder sometime in the near future. Possible lockpicks in the near future? Would be nice. It would be good to get all this stuff out of my head and throw it at some locks to see what happens.

[plot]

Hey, thanks for the quick responses. I've found out today that I actually might be able to have access to a grinder sometime in the near future. Possible lockpicks in the near future? Would be nice. It would be good to get all this stuff out of my head and throw it at some locks to see what happens.

That's good, there's plenty of information on this site on how to make lockpicks if you look around (which i'm sure you already have and have found it... search is your best friend here)

but anyways, check out this video by pyro: viewtopic.php?t=1095 it's a great video on how to create lockpicks using a grinder or a dremel and different materials. there are also pictures on this site that are scans of lockpicks to scale, so you can print them out and have something to go by to get exact sizes when creating your own picks. good luck... and remember, when you first start picking, don't apply to much tension... takes almost none at all, and i can't stress that enough to newbies


... and as for your original question on the pins, it is VERY easy to damage wafer locks (car locks are generally wafer locks, so i'd advice not trying to pick one... as you'll probably damage it unless you know what you're doing).

some cheap locks just have a peice of metal or plastic over the top of the pin chambers, and it is in fact easy to punch the pins up through it... (i've seen stories on this board of this happening to people who bought extremely cheap padlocks to practice on). most locks it's not a problem on. Kwikset has a thin peice of metal that is attached pretty well so you can't really punch the pins up through it, but if you remove it from a practice lock all the pins will come flying out the top.

general rule though... you're not going to damage a good lock. if you do, then hopefully it's just a practice lock... otherwise, it's probably a lock you don't wanna be using anyways. get a cheap kwikset double sided deadbolt to practice on, and if you have any master locks or anything like that lying around the house, then i doubt you'll do any damage to those.