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Unpickable Schlage?!

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Postby machinist » 8 Sep 2006 2:49

the last large apartment building I was in (12 floors) all had assa twins for the front door AND personal units I was very impressed.
If you can't make it work try yelling "aww d*****t!" and throwing your tools it never worked for my pops but it entertained me :)
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Postby globallockytoo » 8 Sep 2006 3:18

If you were a locksmith yourself, I could probably explain other lock bypass techniques.

Considering you came up against a Primus cylinder, I'm not surprised you or even the locksmith had difficulty.

Suffice to say there is more than one way to skin a cat. There are bypass methods that work surprisingly well and quickly in some of theses situations.

With Primus, you need to pick the side bar after picking the inline tumblers. You need to hold tension on the barrel after picking the first set and then proceed to the side bar...it is awkward, I admit....but not too difficult.
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Postby Bud Wiser » 8 Sep 2006 10:26

Personally I doubt it was a primus. They are not that easy to find, you would need to want one, ask for one, and may be wait for one to be ordered for you, plus they cost a lot more too. I think in most cases a apartment dweller as I once was, would want the best cheapest lock that wouldn't hurt leaving behind after a move.

This would explain it being a schlage, which can be found easily, is better quality then the kwiksets, and the cost is not painfully more then the kwiskset.

I think it was just a light duty schlage. They can be difficult enough in the comfort of a easy chair holding it in your hand with no stress factors at all. In the door during a actual emergency, just that much harder.

Being a doornob lock makes it even harder some times, at least for me. Some are easier then others. But schlage is always harder. At least for me.

You were rusty, and I believe the lockie probably was not that experienced. I've met locksmiths who weren't all that good at picking locks. It's definitly possible! I think a more experienced lockie could have picked it in 10 minutes or less. You and I another story. If I could practice with it in the comfort of my easy chair, I could pick it too :)

Schlage even light duty are pretty good locks for the buck!

Now I have to wonder, why no one has mentioned bumping it :)
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Postby lockedin » 8 Sep 2006 14:32

In regards to bumping, as the recent news articles in the general chatter section have shown, many American locksmiths are ignorant of the technique (remember the one advocating security pins as a solution to bumping? :roll:). If it was a regular Schlage, and he had to drill it, it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't know about bumping.
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Postby globallockytoo » 10 Sep 2006 3:09

Bud Wiser wrote:Schlage even light duty are pretty good locks for the buck!


It is obvious you are not a locksmith with that statement...no offence intended.....

Maybe in the USA, Schlage are considered "pretty good locks"....but the rest of the world consider them on the lower end of the scale.

There are alot of other products also reasonably priced that are better than Schlage...you just have to ask
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Postby Bud Wiser » 10 Sep 2006 9:47

globallockytoo wrote:
Bud Wiser wrote:Schlage even light duty are pretty good locks for the buck!


It is obvious you are not a locksmith with that statement...no offence intended.....

Maybe in the USA, Schlage are considered "pretty good locks"....but the rest of the world consider them on the lower end of the scale.

There are alot of other products also reasonably priced that are better than Schlage...you just have to ask


It's obvious your not American, no offense intended...

but in the USA it's pretty much either Quikset or Schlage, so my statement stands :)
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Postby I Pik U » 12 Sep 2006 22:24

I'm a locksmith, and have found Schlage locks harder to pick than other residential grade locks. Especially their A series and heavier grades, as well as the B series locks. That's why I made this cut away cylinder to practice on: Cut away

The F series, which sounds like what this may have been, are much easier, although now with their "compressable cylinders". which have mushroom pins, they may actually be more difficult. To tell you the truth, I haven't really tried picking these newer ones. Got to try one when I have some free time.

I will start picking without any lube first. If I don't have any luck after a short time, I will then lube the cylinder.[/url]
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Postby darrel.h » 17 Sep 2006 15:29

Sh**! I can't seem to pick my schlage. I disassembled it and there aren't any security pins. I think the keyway could be causing the problems.
If all fails, use nitroglycerine.
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Postby globallockytoo » 18 Sep 2006 9:29

Bud Wiser wrote:
globallockytoo wrote:
Bud Wiser wrote:Schlage even light duty are pretty good locks for the buck!


It is obvious you are not a locksmith with that statement...no offence intended.....

Maybe in the USA, Schlage are considered "pretty good locks"....but the rest of the world consider them on the lower end of the scale.

There are alot of other products also reasonably priced that are better than Schlage...you just have to ask


It's obvious your not American, no offense intended...

but in the USA it's pretty much either Quikset or Schlage, so my statement stands :)



Why do you say I'm not American?......I am for your information...although this is irrelevant!

Kwikset and Schlage are well known even to Americans as "average" quality. But people are too focussed on price rather than value and are too easily swayed by fancy bs advertising.

It is well known that there are more suckers in America than some other places.

Want to sell your product....irrespective of it's quality .....go to America...they will buy it! Suckers!
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Postby Bud Wiser » 18 Sep 2006 10:06

globallockytoo wrote:
Bud Wiser wrote:
globallockytoo wrote:
Bud Wiser wrote:Schlage even light duty are pretty good locks for the buck!


It is obvious you are not a locksmith with that statement...no offence intended.....

Maybe in the USA, Schlage are considered "pretty good locks"....but the rest of the world consider them on the lower end of the scale.

There are alot of other products also reasonably priced that are better than Schlage...you just have to ask


It's obvious your not American, no offense intended...

but in the USA it's pretty much either Quikset or Schlage, so my statement stands :)



Why do you say I'm not American?......I am for your information...although this is irrelevant!

Kwikset and Schlage are well known even to Americans as "average" quality. But people are too focussed on price rather than value and are too easily swayed by fancy bs advertising.

It is well known that there are more suckers in America than some other places.

Want to sell your product....irrespective of it's quality .....go to America...they will buy it! Suckers!


I agree most are focused on price, but a lot of it is not their fault either! The average Joe goes to Walmart or some hardware store to buy locks, guess what they will find? And if some one actually took the time to find a locksmith and visit them, like the "Largest" locksmith shop in our area, guess what they will find? A vast array of quiksets and some schlage! They didn't even have the Kwikset Ultima which is at least a 6 pin lock and offers some pick resistance!

I disagree most Americans are suckers, but would agree most American lockies may be dickheads :)

But back to consumers, one would have to know there are other brands, and ask for them, and not mind waiting for it to be ordered. So that's why I said it's pretty much kwiksets and schlage.

It's better for commercial installs, but not much.

Sure there is better. It's just not the norm, at least not around NYS.

BTW, it sounded like you were not American by your statement,
..."Maybe in the USA, Schlage are considered "pretty good locks"....but the rest of the world consider them on the lower end of the scale."

Any way being a locksmith does not by itself mean expertise. Most of the lockies around here are only "experts" with quiksets and what ever their daily tasks employ. It's a job for them, not a passion like us. Again only referring to the lockies I've met over here. So just because some one tells me they are a locksmith doesn't impress me all that much until I have actual reason to be impressed.

I still believe schlage is a terrific lock for the price! It gives a lot of people trouble picking, lockies and hobbyists. Trouble free, good quality, Great Bang for the buck, and easy to find almost any where!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it :)
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Postby globallockytoo » 18 Sep 2006 10:48

I disagree most Americans are suckers, but would agree most American lockies may be dickheads



Thats not what i said....


I said, there are more suckers in America than other places....

And i completely disagree with your statement that "most American lockies may be dickheads:lol:"


Most consumers are the dickheads...for not consulting locksmiths but instead buying their garbage at Wal-mart like you say....

Just because you encountered one nincompoop....you shouldnt make so general a statement about "most American lockies"

Who's the dickhead now?:lol:
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Postby Bud Wiser » 18 Sep 2006 10:58

globallockytoo wrote:
Who's the dickhead now?:lol:


well may be you need to reread my post and your post a couple of times, may be a little slower :)
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Postby globallockytoo » 18 Sep 2006 11:15

You know, I have no idea what you do in sales as a security consultant...but frankly...you dont seem to have much knowledge about physical security (particularly locksmithing), as displayed by your comments here.

If you did have some knowledge and experience....you wouldnt say the things you are saying.

From your attitude...I would suspect you were beligerent to that locksmith...and I doubt you would know one lock from another.

It's ok to be a lockpicker for a hobby...but coming off as if you are some expert...when you are obviously not is just plaing wrong in my opinion.
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Postby Bud Wiser » 18 Sep 2006 11:35

globallockytoo wrote:You know, I have no idea what you do in sales as a security consultant...but frankly...you dont seem to have much knowledge about physical security (particularly locksmithing), as displayed by your comments here.

If you did have some knowledge and experience....you wouldnt say the things you are saying.

From your attitude...I would suspect you were beligerent to that locksmith...and I doubt you would know one lock from another.

It's ok to be a lockpicker for a hobby...but coming off as if you are some expert...when you are obviously not is just plaing wrong in my opinion.


??????????????????

never said I was an expert, far from it on locksmithing. As a security consutant I do have some knowledge. Unavoidable with 20+ years :)

My attitude is one of very relaxed and laid back, as a sales professional I am well aware how to communicate with people in person.

Also if you took the time to read carefully what I said you would understand I was NOT making any generalized statements. You began making generalized statements by implying "more" americans are suckers, I countered that I disagree with that but *would* agree the most (here the word should have been MORE instead of most to better continue your idea) "may be" dickheads with a smiley.

I also made it a point to make it clear I was going by my own observations and personal experiences, such as the *Largest* locksmith shop in *my* area, and fail to see where you get I was making any generalized statements. The way I see it you made generalized statements with your consumer comment.

I find dealing with people in person to be totally different then dealing with people on forums. Face to face it's much easier to communicate and be understood. I believe facial expressions and eye contact has a lot to do with that which is missing on forum accept for occasional smilies to help communicate.

Finally at worse all we have here is different opinions, hardly life or death, and certainly should be easy to get past. In reality we *may* not even be that far apart in opinions, then again we may be.

Look at it this way, how boring life would be if we were all one mind, thinked to the same and agreed with every thing.

Next beer is on me :)
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Postby UWSDWF » 18 Sep 2006 11:43

I belive I've said nearly the samething Bud.....
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DISCLAIMER:repeating anything written in the above post may result in dismemberment,arrest,drug and/or alcohol use,scars,injury,death, and midget obsession.
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