A hard lock for a noob

by **LockNewbie21** » 25 Sep 2006 13:21

Its had to say budwiser, he couldd practice but i think you assumption of jupin to spools is a good one.

I also agree, for wal mart locks, i love brinks

If you would like a tip for the shouded try grinding som material off of a chappy pick.. like a SO

The thinner tang helps with the feel emmensly.

I will try and get a pic of the spool in the this lock up here.. its pasically the same as say a master spool from a 150. they may be the same size.. i need a micrometer :cry:

by **ldnlksmth** » 5 Oct 2006 20:43

you'll get more 'instant gratification' out of picking a lock without spools, but to paraphrase.... 'man who pick lock with spool drivers can pick anything'.

I worked in a shop, and the boss instisted that every padlock (mostly the master 6525 series) be pinned with ALL spool pins, make them as difficult as possible to pick. I'm very good at messing up pin stacks, and therefore got LOTS of practice picking those open afterwards. I found that after a while, I would go out to open a house/business/car/storage unit and picking regular pin tumblers was a snap.

Yes, it is more difficult, but the rewards will make up for the frustration.

by **sams choice** » 9 Oct 2006 2:05

i didnt think you could do all spools. One pin has to be flush so that the lock would work properly. If they were all spools it would get stuck at the sheer line. Let me know if i am wrong.

by **Romstar** » 9 Oct 2006 2:43

Nope, you can pin with all spools. It does work, but sometimes you have to jiggle the key a bit to get it in.

Once the key raises everything to the shear line, it really doesn't matter.

Romstar

by **sams choice** » 9 Oct 2006 4:28

good to know, but in certain shaped security pins it could cause a jam and permentant damges could happen to the pins. am i wrong about that?

by **Romstar** » 9 Oct 2006 8:31

sams choice wrote:good to know, but in certain shaped security pins it could cause a jam and permentant damges could happen to the pins. am i wrong about that?

Well, just exaclty how hard are you pushing the key into the lock?

In the worst case, the pins are just plain old brass. Assuming you aren't hammering in the key with a ball peen hammer, I just can't see you doing any real damage to them.

Regardless of whether they are spool or mushroom pins, once everything is at the shearline, it really doesn't matter. The pins are in their respective cylinders, and the tops and bottoms are in the proper place, so there is no movement.

No, if somehow you managed to get one stuck, all it would require is a little wiggling, and it would move into the proper location.

I don't recomend pinning in this fashion, but to be perfectly honest, it works just fine. Over a long period of time, you will get some slop in the lock, but it really shouldn't keep it from operating with the key.

Romstar

by **ldnlksmth** » 9 Oct 2006 12:11

it can be tricky, and the key has to be absolutly perfect (at least to start). We found that to keep things from jamming, we put a light chamfer (bevel) on the plug chambers, giving just that extra .001-.003 in. clearance. Doesn't affect the operation too badly, and keeps the customer coming back to us for keys (duplicates almost never worked)

by **sams choice** » 9 Oct 2006 12:46

hmm that is very intresting to me. for some reason i always thought the lock would get hung up. I think i will play around to get the first person kinda discovery to it. hahah. Thanks Romstar

Sams choice

by **ldnlksmth** » 9 Oct 2006 19:29

make no mistake, it can happen. As long as everything's in good shape and wears kind of evenly, you're good. Just have to be DEAD on with the cuts in the key, because if the sheer line is off even a little, it will hang, frequently.

by **Romstar** » 10 Oct 2006 0:10

ldnlksmth is right for the most part.

Key duplicates don't like to work because the machines in most places are just enough out of whack that they don't cut even.

Generally though, I have never had a problem with this.

Romstar

by **VashTSPD** » 10 Oct 2006 13:42

I picked a lock similar to that one--it was the same size and shackle length, but it didn't have the Master Lock brand strap.

I found it hard to pick at first, this was back before I had made any real picks or bought any. All I had was a hook. It took a while, and I was just guessing with my pushes at those times. I've revisited it since, and I don't know if yours is the same way but..

I have to first reach all the way to the back of the lock and push up on what feels like a lip in the metal, that will release the side of the shackle that stays in the housing. I can feel it release, then I can pick the lock as normal. Or after I push the lip up and release that side, I can push that part of the shackle down and feel it click back into a locked position. My friend had lost the key to the lock, which is too bad, I would have liked to have seen if there were any special shapes on the end of the key or if it just worked...*shrug*. I don't know if your Master Lock was like that though, no other lock I have have I found that on.

by **ldnlksmth** » 10 Oct 2006 18:29

that almost sounds like a warded padlock, not a pin-tumbler.

I was referring to the 'commercial grade' removable/rekeyable (6525 series, I believe is the number), which are much bigger than the laminated ones you see commonly in hardware stores.

by **Sesame** » 26 Oct 2006 20:24

Locknewbie raises a good point. Does anybody have any micrometer recommendations? Sure would be handy from time to time. How much do you have to spend to get a reasonable one?

by **Gordon Airporte** » 26 Oct 2006 21:52

Sesame wrote:Locknewbie raises a good point. Does anybody have any micrometer recommendations? Sure would be handy from time to time. How much do you have to spend to get a reasonable one?

If you aren't doing serious metalwork, no more than $40. There are some decent digital ones around which can display in both metric and imperial, which is handy on international sites like this. When I upgrade I'm probably getting these:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... at=1,43513

by **Sesame** » 26 Oct 2006 22:05

Sweet, thanks Gordon. I'm ordering one now. I've got a crappy one and it's been bugging me for years.

A hard lock for a noob

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