Simple Bypass For Master #3?

[Schuyler]

Well,

I've had little luck reproducing your results, which is not at all to say that they are not reproducable. I actually had very little time to work on it last night, but tried it with to with no luck. They did open with regular SPP and raking.

Anyhow, later today I've got a long car ride to a conference I'm attending. Happily I'm not driving so I'll do some more experimenting in the car.

A couple other questions:

What pick are you using?

I assume you're putting tension on, yeah?

Is your number 3 old or new?

You're just tapping up right? No side to side scraping motion or anything?

Anyhow, I'll hack at it some more on my ride to the conference, I really only got about 20 minutes to play with them last night.

[Schuyler]

Also,

Considering those who have and have not chimed in on this thread, it makes me wonder if there isn't a Shrub or a DB lurking around, waiting for the kids table to figure out what's in the meatloaf...

[Bud Wiser]

2 new #3's.

Small hook, but could use any pick to do it with. I've even used a tension wrend in place of a pick once to do it (really).

Yes I use a tension, not much. I'm sure no other pins are being touched. If it doesn't work the first try by simply apply normal pressure to push up, I tap it and it will open.

Noteworthy: I tried again late last nite to duplicate it, and it took much longer, about a minute or so.

If you can duplicate it, it won't be hard. Just doesn't seem to be a reliable bypass. When it works it works fast. Other times, you need to play it, but will eventually open. Has to be more luck I think.

[kodierer]

Its a thumb, or finger weight tension. Thats what I've used anyway. I used a small half diamond pick for the locks I've done it with, but that doesn't matter. Doesn't work on all #3's, but I've got it to work with a few. People throw away locks anytime they loose their key, or the lock becomes sticky, so I have a large collection of master locks I've been given by getting the word out that I want peoples locks that they are throwing away.

[essidle]

It sounds like you might be unwittingly setting the rest of the pins. My front door deadbolt reacts similiarly, there is almost no deviation in the pin pattern (the key almost looks like a blank). Light tension and the Hollywood-jiggle is all that is needed to open it.

[kodierer]

It sounds like you might be unwittingly setting the rest of the pins. My front door deadbolt reacts similiarly, there is almost no deviation in the pin pattern (the key almost looks like a blank). Light tension and the Hollywood-jiggle is all that is needed to open it.

I thought about that. I am pretty sure that both budwiser, and I are only picking picking one single pin, and there is not weight being transfered from the pick to the rest of the pins. I've seen keys like that where all the cuts are pretty shallow. For a quick pick I'll run a half ball across the pins. one run, and pop. This isn't the case I'm afraid. I do think your correct, but I'm not sure how. I think some of the locks are manufactured with a rather large sheer line.

[Schuyler]

OK

I've managed to make this work on 2 of my locks, it's weird, it also has specifically not worked on the others (they are from a wide range of times and conditions)

I'm also not very consistant with the 2.

This is all very strange...

[Bud Wiser]

thanks for trying! I'm glad you were able to experience this first hand. It's difficult to explain isnt it?

[bumpit]

This is really interesting. Is it possible this is a bypass for only a certain year of Master Lock#3?

[Schuyler]

thanks for trying! I'm glad you were able to experience this first hand. It's difficult to explain isnt it?

Indeed, very weird. I can't say I'm wholly convinced of...heh, I don't even know what it is we may be discovering. I'm going to try to pull one apart tonight. I have no idea if it'll work, as I've had a pretty heavy hand with cutaways thus-far.

Also, got your PM, sorry I haven't responded, but I will!

[Bud Wiser]

Ok, update for any one interested in this proceedure. I've found a easier way to duplicate this "bypass" if indeed that is what it is.

Using a half ball pick I place the pick in the keyway angled down! Then while applying slight tension I jiggle it a little. I can also do it with a small hook but the half for ball seems to be more easier to duplicate.

I made a video demonstrating this. I had to use a old camera so it's not very good quality. I have a video camera and a dedicated DV computer for editing, but I never used the software so I will have to fimilarize myself with it first. Mean while I did want to get some thing out there.

The ease of this makes me wonder going on inside! By angling the pick down the keyway it almost feels like I am hitting some thing below the pins. Any one that has a master #3 please give it a try and see what you get and tell me what you think. This new method is a lot easier and reliable then the first method I used.

Here is the video

[jimb]

Here is the video

It looks a lot like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qep6cReOgU

Have you tried it without the tension wrench?

[Bud Wiser]

Yes I tried it that way too. A tension is needed, ever so slightly. The cylinder actually turns, the lock doesn't just pop open. That's what makes this so mysterious.

The pick doesn't seem to make much difference, although for whatever reason the half ball is the easiest to duplicate this with. I have even done it with out a pick and used a tension wrench as a pick, but it's not as easy to duplicate that way. That would make a good video!

This may not actually be a bypass. It may be that the design of the master #3 is such that there is a major flaw where you can for what ever reason, may be by vibration, either set all the pins or bypass them. Or it could be some thing else. Unfortunately all my previous cutaway attempts were disastrous!

[raimundo]

I come and go through a gate locked with a master #3 several times every day, (back end of the property) I don't use a key, I have impressioned this lock twice and given the key to others who lost there key who live in the house, but I just pick it every time, except in winter when water gets in and freezes it, it is just as fast as opening it with a key. A day or two ago, the landlord tells me that master locks only have a few key changes, he was trying to knock me down a peg by implying that Im doing something easy, well, it is easy, im not bragging, im reporting, but it got me wondering how many key changes this four pin lock could possibly have, i dont even know the number of pin depths in this thing, I answered him by some bs about keyed alike locks being sets of which there are probably very few. A locksmith buys a case of keyed alike locks, or a few cases, he has to buy the one combination that opens dumpsters all over town so that he can supply locks for these, that is a very big set of ka locks, and does he only sell them to people who tell him they are for a dumpster? he may want to have only a few ka lock varieties so that when a customer comes in and says that he wants to expand his set of locks, there are more of the same to sell him even years later. Generally a ka master #3 must be the most insecure lock of all, right up there with TSA-bushcheney locks, but the question remains, with max adjacent pinning considered, how many combinations can the whole set of master four pin locks support?

[jimb]

but I just pick it every time, except in winter when water gets in and freezes it,

Try squirting some antifreeze in it this winter.

but the question remains, with max adjacent pinning considered, how many combinations can the whole set of master four pin locks support?

I don't know which pins the #3 has but according to the space and depth charts I have the Master small pin has 6 depths and the standard large pin has 7. I'll let you do the math.