4/5 Pins...

by **Phara0h** » 5 Oct 2006 21:17

Hi all, trying my first lock..

It's a MasterLock No.7 and it's pretty old and could be broken, at least it rattles when I shake it.. but regardless I can get 4 out of the 5 pins to catch, I think.. when I give up and let go of the torque wrench I hear *click*click*click*click* but I know there's 5 pins, so for some reason I can't get the 5th. Any tips? Is this too hard of a lock for a beginner or is it actually possibly broken?

by **Wrenchman** » 5 Oct 2006 21:37

Hi and Welcome, where are you from buddy?

Is there any springiness in the pins when you lift them, it can be another part of the lock rattling, it doesÂ´nt have to be a problem, I have locks that rattles, but I donÂ´t know the M7.

Classic suggestion, It could be spools, causing you not to open the lock!

And even locks with broken springs can be picked

Keep it up, and enjoy the site!

Wrenchman

by **Bud Wiser** » 5 Oct 2006 21:47

Master #7 only has 4 pins! Not sure what that 5th thing is your feeling, but it's not a 5th pin.

I don't think your setting all 4 pins. Master locks can be a pain some times, keep trying

by **Phara0h** » 5 Oct 2006 22:06

Yeah I meant to say I think it has 5 pins, not I know it has 5 pins.. and I'm from San Francisco, Wrenchman.

Now I think I'm not getting any to catch correctly, maybe just getting the bottom pins catching in the shear line.. But for sure I've gotten the first pin to catch sometimes.. I can hear 2 clicks when I let the first pin down and if I start applying torque after I hear the first click, it catches.

Is there any possible way to use this method to get the rest of the pins?

by **Phara0h** » 5 Oct 2006 22:42

I just found a MasterLock No.3 in the garage.. are these harder or easier to practice on? The lock is a little bigger but I can't seem to get the first pin to catch the same way I can with the No.7.

by **Bud Wiser** » 5 Oct 2006 23:26

Master #'s 1 thru 5 and #7 are pretty much about the same, 4 pins, same feel basically. The biggest difference will not be the model number here but the key cut.

Take a look at your key and see how it is cut. If you have very highs and very lows it will be harder. If the cuts are pretty close, no big variation, it will be easier.

If you don't have the key, you can try taking a snake rake or even your small hook pick and try raking it open with light tension. If it opens fairly easy chances are it should be more evenly cut and easier to SPP. If it's hard to rake, it will be hard to pick, but not terribly hard, just take some practice. I've got locks I can't rake open but can SPP.

These Masters can be incredibly easy to pick and insanely annoying! I have two master #1. One I can SPP in under 20 seconds. The other can take up to 6 minutes! Same lock, different key cuts. I also have 2 #5's, one is very hard to SPP because the cut on this one is very high! Also these masters have strong springs which makes it feel like you need to apply more tension.

I'm by no means an expert or any thing to brag about I assure you, I'm just sharing my observations with the masters I've worked on. I think the reason they can be so difficult some times is also because of the crappy craftsmanship too. Some master locks are actually very good to work on! Better quality make! The masters #140-150, #532, and even the #575, but these have spool pins, yet even with spools I find these easier some times then the cheaper masters.

You will be able to pick both #3 and #7 eventually! They just require some patience and practice. Try using different tension wrenches and a small hook. If you get frustrated, just put it down and go do some thing else. But you will get it

by **zeke79** » 5 Oct 2006 23:51

Bud Wiser wrote:Master #'s 1 thru 5 and #7 are pretty much about the same, 4 pins, same feel basically. The biggest difference will not be the model number here but the key cut.

Take a look at your key and see how it is cut. If you have very highs and very lows it will be harder. If the cuts are pretty close, no big variation, it will be easier.

If you don't have the key, you can try taking a snake rake or even your small hook pick and try raking it open with light tension. If it opens fairly easy chances are it should be more evenly cut and easier to SPP. If it's hard to rake, it will be hard to pick, but not terribly hard, just take some practice. I've got locks I can't rake open but can SPP.

These Masters can be incredibly easy to pick and insanely annoying! I have two master #1. One I can SPP in under 20 seconds. The other can take up to 6 minutes! Same lock, different key cuts. I also have 2 #5's, one is very hard to SPP because the cut on this one is very high! Also these masters have strong springs which makes it feel like you need to apply more tension.

I'm by no means an expert or any thing to brag about I assure you, I'm just sharing my observations with the masters I've worked on. I think the reason they can be so difficult some times is also because of the crappy craftsmanship too. Some master locks are actually very good to work on! Better quality make! The masters #140-150, #532, and even the #575, but these have spool pins, yet even with spools I find these easier some times then the cheaper masters.

You will be able to pick both #3 and #7 eventually! They just require some patience and practice. Try using different tension wrenches and a small hook. If you get frustrated, just put it down and go do some thing else. But you will get it

Very good description Bud Wiser. I could not have said it better myself if I had taken the time. Bravo. This may warrant a sticky actually.

by **Bud Wiser** » 6 Oct 2006 0:03

Thx Zeke!

by **zeke79** » 6 Oct 2006 1:44

by **Phara0h** » 11 Oct 2006 3:14

Just to catch y'all up on my progress, I've picked this lock 8 times, and it really is all thanks to practice and a knowledge of the mechanics of locks. Tomorrow I'm going down to the hardware store to get a door lock I can try that newbie practice thing everyone raves about on this forum.

Thanks for existing, LockPicking101.com! I think I'll stick around.

by **Circus_Ninja** » 11 Oct 2006 7:51

maybe you're pushing one of the bottom/lower pins OVER the shear.
this happened to one of my locks all the pins went up but it didnt turn.
:?:

by **cL4y** » 11 Oct 2006 9:07

i don't know why people always start picking on master locks.

by **btierney** » 11 Oct 2006 9:32

Masters just seem to be what everyone has laying around when they start picking. It's better than trying the front door first :wink:

If most people are like me, after they hear that first click they will be hooked and go buy some better practice locks. And by all means follow Digital_Blue's beginner exercise. It helped me greatly.

-Brian

by **pinsetter** » 11 Oct 2006 13:39

I just have something to add to the subject of different and sometimes difficult pinning combinations.

Over the weekend I was handed a Master #17 Contractor grade padlock and was challenged to open it. The guy had the key, but would not let me see it, nor did I really want to since I had been challenged to open the lock. I easily concluded that the lock had 5 pins, and since it said Master on it I automatically assumed it was going to be easy work. Well, it wasn't such easy work after all. I started with SPP technique, but that got me nowhere quick and I was about to hand the lock back to him and tell him it had defeated me. Right before I did that though I decided to run my small half diamond through it like a rake. I was quite amazed that the lock popped open on the first swipe through with virtually no lifting of the pins.

After I opened it, the guy showed me the key and all the cuts were maximum depth cuts or one cut under maximum ( all 8 or 9 cuts). I found this pinning to be quite tricky for one reason:
Maybe it is just me, but when I go to pick a lock I start lifting pins and if I feel "catches" on all the pins when I first start lifting them I automatically think "Hmm, serrated pins!" On this particular lock I found out that isn't always the case. With this lock, almost any lift at all on any of the pins created an overlift situation. This type of pinning can really throw you for a loop if you haven't run across it before.

by **keysman** » 12 Oct 2006 1:50

Bud Wiser wrote:Master #'s 1 thru 5 and #7 are pretty much about the same, 4 pins, same feel basically. The biggest difference will not be the model number here but the key cut.

)

good description 1 corection if I may :

Master # 1 , 3, 5 ( maybe others ) take the M1 blank
Master # 7 is a much smaller lock and takes the M2 blank
Both are 4 pin cylinders but the # 7 is much smaller, they even have different size ( diamater ) pins.

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