Southern Specialties practice lock (cutaway) problem

[blake1803]

I recently picked up one of these locks and I'm having a small problem. (lockpicktools.com/books.htm)

compared to other cutaways that have a stand, the price is very good. the ease with which the pins can be replaced etc is also nice. it's an SC1 keyway, pretty much what you'd expect.

my problem is that the lock requires a great deal of effort to initiate the turn of the key. to be more specific, the problem is not that the whole rotation of the key takes effort or is having problems with friction or something. rather, when the key is first inserted, that very first turn to engage the lock sort of clicks and takes some effort. to overcome this, the amount of tension I have to apply with my tension tool to open the lock is so high it's ridiculous.

I've never really had this problem with other locks, so I'm sort of confused. if the pins are out it turns very smoothly, so could it be too much spring pressure?

would something like a graphite powder help, or is that for other problems?

thanks!

[Kaotik]

Using a graphite dry lube is an option (just don't use to much, a light puff from the dispensor bottle should do just fine). With the pins removed it turns freely says there is nothing constricting the cylinder but the pins or springs, unless the tension tool is biting into the housing.

If the tension tool is the problem, try using some fine grit sand paper to round the edges of tensor. It may or may not help but it will narrow the problem down.

Good luck

[blake1803]

Even when using the actual key there is resistance... so it's not a problem with the tension tool (tried a variety of tools, too). I'd like to use the graphite as a last resort in case I try to return the thing for a refund, although I don't know what their policies are. But the learning spirit in me really just wants to diagnose and fix the problem myself...

[Shrub]

Remove the plug and check the pins are flush with the plug, it sounds like the key has been cut too low or the wrong pins used and the top pins are entering the plug slightly,

Does it get a bit better if you lift the key up in the keyway?

[blake1803]

Shrub that's a very good thought and I'll get to it this evening (have to step out for the moment)

Just tried something real quick just to see what would happen with interesting results, though, maybe you guys will be able to figure something out from this -- this lock doesn't seem like it can be bumped. No matter how hard I hit, the pins will not budge at all. Something screwy is going on, not sure what...

[Kaotik]

Sorry about the confusion, you stated that: "the amount of tension I have to apply with my tension tool to open the lock is so high it's ridiculous".

Which lead me to think it would be from the key and tension tool.

Now you are trying to bump the same lock that your having problems turning the cylinder on? If so, it doesn't seem to make much sence to me that you would encounter a problem with a lock that you (might) return so you decide to try and bump it which could cause some damage and interfere with the return policy.

*The above statement is made braud because of the fact that damage can be seen from the outside of the lock, after dismanteling it, to the extent of only seeing it with a scope.

Although I could be totally wrong and not understand a thing you are trying to do.

[blake1803]

Shrub, you were dead-on accurate about the pins not being flush. They are the tiniest, tiniest bit too low. Maybe half a milimeter? I dont know if that small a difference could affect the lock -- or if it's even wrong -- is it?

If I lift the key it doesnt have the problem, but since I'm exerting so much force when lifting, it's hard to tell if it only appears to be working better since I have to excert the same amount of force when turning without lifting.

It amazes me how you lockies can diagnose a problem so quick without even looking at it

That still doesnt explain to me why normal picking wouldn't work, though. I can get the pins to set -- and I can see it since it's a cutaway -- but only if I am using EXTREME tension will the lock open, just as with turning the key. It also doesnt explain why, while bumping (not that I care for bumping, just trying to figure out what;s wrong ), the pins wont move at all.

My final question is this: since this is using an SC1 key and the parts are presumably Schlage -- if I went to a store and bought a similar lock (hard to tell exactly what kind this is, though), would I be able to fit the plug from that lock into my cutaway cylinder?

Thanks for all your help!

[blake1803]

Kaotik: at this point I'm not going to bother returning it, I'm pretty much set on getting it to work myself, whether that means repinning it or whatever it takes. If nothing else, it's a good learning experience

My only reason for bumping it (no real visible marring on the plug, btw, so it wouldn't be a problem if that did come up) was to try and figure out what was wrong.

[Shrub]

Im not sure why it wont pick, they arent great locks thoguh and the way to learn is on a real lock with pins removed, youve already fallen into the trap by looking in the lock everytime somthing goes wrong, this will hinder your practise,

The plug should fit but the holes may not line up as the clear one may have been made to differant specs,

Remove the plug and look for any shiney parts that means its been rubbing, spray a bit of silicone spray on the plug and put it back and try it, if you dont have any silicone/ptfe spray try some car dash board cleaner as most of that is silicone based and will put you one,

Be careful what you spray on clear plastic locks, im not sure what material they use but if you use the wrong stuff it could shatter so make sure its compatable first,

Other than that get a new 'real' lock and repin it to 2 pins then 3 and so on, leave the clear lock to show people how a lock works as thats all they are useful for, you need to feel the pins not see them,

[blake1803]

Im not sure why it wont pick, they arent great locks thoguh and the way to learn is on a real lock with pins removed, youve already fallen into the trap by looking in the lock everytime somthing goes wrong, this will hinder your practise,

Oh, I've already picked a good deal of Kwiksets uisng this method (check back to my first post from a year ago -- you were helping me with padlocks back then ) and have worked my way up to 5 pins; I only bought the cutaway for two reasons

1) I really wanted to see the inner workings of a lock
2) the novelty of it

There's no plastic involved on this lock so I think I'll give either dry or silicone lubricants a try. May as well pick up a cheap Schlage lock at the hardware store anyway since I've only messed with Kwikset and dollar store stuff so far!

[Shrub]

Ah sorry about that, i forget user names lol

So if theres no plastic is the lock made from glass?
Im sure they are made from plastic like perspex or such like or is it a cut away? im getting mixed up now, i thought it was a see throguh lock lol

In the case of a cut away there could be a burr on the inside somewhere,

Sorry for the mix up,

[blake1803]

It's a regular brass lock that has a opening cut into it so you can see in. There's no glass or plastic covering, just that cut. There's a picture of it here -- lockpicktools.com/books.htm -- not a very good one, but may give you some idea

don't worry about the username.. I'm here all the time but just don't post often because you could spend years just reading this site before having a question that hasn't already been answered ten times over

[Kaotik]

Ahhh! with only a cut or slot exposing the insides of the lock and to see what is going on in the lock sounds like it could create a problem.

When making cutaways, it is important to sand all the edges not only outside the lock but inside aswell. Like said, try looking for any shiny spots made from burrs or flashing.

For the reasons you bought the lock, it seems you made a good choice, sux to have a problem with it though. You'll figure it out, and when you do, let us know, could be something others should look for when purchasing this item.