Bumping

by **bobc** » 27 Oct 2006 3:38

I believe that there is too much time given to bumping of locks on what is suppose to be a site on lock picking !
So my question is !
Is this a site that is now viewed by people who want a quick fix to a problem ie. Open a lock without picking! and are we moving away from the real values of lock picking basics and arming the criminal with knowledge ( I should stress that I am in no way suggesting that everyone who uses this site is viewing for that reason but it does certainly make you sit up and take notice especially when most new questions start with "How do you open this lock" or "How do I make a bump key"
With crime rates as they are here in the UK and I'm sure in the US as well maybe we should be taken more seriously the information that is available on open forum !
Just a personal opinion and one that may or may not be shared by others

by **melvin2001** » 27 Oct 2006 3:54

i think hiding the fact that bumping exists and that it is a problem will do more harm then good. people should be informed about how and why bumping works, because only when they realize that any monkey with a stick can do it will they start to demand lock manufacturers to improve their designs.

by **Shrub** » 27 Oct 2006 7:28

melvin2001 wrote:i think hiding the fact that bumping exists and that it is a problem will do more harm then good. people should be informed about how and why bumping works, because only when they realize that any monkey with a stick can do it will they start to demand lock manufacturers to improve their designs.

Ive never agreed with that argument as to me it says 'stuff you' to all the people with bumpable locks and especially those that cant afford or arent allowed to change the locks for the expensive anti bump ones,

Its like saying hard luck youve got a bumpable lock thats your fault, im going to tell everyone how to do it anyway,

That said its far too late to limit the discussion on them, i remember when it first came popular on this site and it was suggested that if it blew out of proportion it would be put to the advanced sections but it long went past that stage within a week of it being in the press,

The media are the main ones to blame, without people trying to get a name for themselve in the news it wouldnt have been such an issue but from all over the world people are telling anyone who listens what it is and how to do it, some are educated and can give the correct points across and others poorly prepared and just repeating what the internet has told them,

The 'bumpers' of this site dont hang around, they vist due to the afore mentioned media and once told how to do it or told to get lost they disapear, few hang around and get interested in the hobby, the regulars on here are pickers through and through and that wont change the theme of the site,
Its unfortunate bumping has taken such a hold on people but its the same as any other fad in that it will soon die down, we see surges in the bumpkey threads when a new news article comes out and the site gets flooded,

There are no crime statistics on NDE entry, its heresay, until the police are adequately trained in the various methods and what to look for they will just put it down as other entry, theres no telling what the stats are for bumping or picking locks to gain entry,

All we can do on this site is go with the times, help people ethicaly that visit the site and steer those that are wrong doers away, make sure we give off the right impression to any possable media visiters and conduct ourselves in a sensible manner,
In the past for example the site has been dragged down by uk locksmith slanging matches which is not only highly unprofessional but also looks very bad to the outsider, slowly weve eliminated most of this childishness on here,

Remember our main and only moto is 'Dont pick locks in use' and 'Dont pick locks that are not yours' and thats all we can do,

One last point, its actually been proven that this site has more threads on people complaining about bumpkey threads than actual bumpkey threads!

by **illusion** » 27 Oct 2006 7:57

The media are the main ones to blame

Who went to the media? Whoever did that is surely the root of it - the media will do anything for a big story, but usualy it has to have someone there to run to them and kick it off.

I don't mean to offend, but I speak my mind, and to say anything else would be a bair-faced lie.

I think we are balanced between the people who want fame and revel in the media, and those who would prefer our sport stayed quiet - I wonder which side it will go?

by **maxxed** » 28 Oct 2006 0:50

The media recently called me about bump keys. They wanted to do a story on it and wanted a " loacl expert" to demonstrate the procedure. I told them that I did not agree with them doing such a story, they said that this is all over the net so there should be no problem. I was then asked to bump a lock on camera, I declined stating that I did not want to entice anyone who may want to use this meathod for unethical gain. This fact that someone could possibly use this meathod unethically was not a good enough reason to not do the story. I told them that I hope their house is first. I don't expect any more calls from them

by **digital_blue** » 28 Oct 2006 0:59

I still don't see what all the fuss is about. Bumping exists. We are interested in locks. It's only reasonable that we'll talk about it some. As for there being "too much time given" to bumping discussion on this site, what's your proposal? It's easy to criticize, but not so easy to come up with a workable solution?

Do we restrict bumping discussion altogether? Seems silly to me. It's an interesting enough topic, it applies very much to what we do, and it's something that people want to know about.

If not restrict it, then what? How do you propose we limit the amount of bumping discussion? The only control I have over what people choose to post is to delete it after the fact. Shall I just start randomly removing every third thread on bumping?

In reality, there have been at least as many threads ABOUT BUMPING THREADS as there has been newbie threads about bumping. People are making an issue out of a non-issue.

db

by **jasontimmer** » 28 Oct 2006 15:07

personally, im interested in any method of bypassing security systems or any system in general. as was mentioned in the toool site, bumping and picking doesn't really provide criminals with a useful tool for breaking and entering. criminals will usually first try the front door. if it's locked, their most common plan "B" is to break a window. if someone wants to get in, they're GONNA get in, and they're not gonna spend the time, money, and effort to learn lockpicking or bumping.

by **melvin2001** » 28 Oct 2006 15:50

public awareness is the only reason lock manufacturers have to bring the price down on bump-proof locks.

saying that talking about bumping is like thumbing your nose at those that cant afford to protect themself is crazy. Since MOST people cant afford to protect themself from bumping at the current time the only way to bring the prices down is to cause some public outcry. do you actually believe that companies havn't known about this vulnerablility even though snap picks exploit the same general principle? It's complete bull and they wont change their designs to make them better equipped to handle that exploit untill the public demands they do so.

by **rohi** » 28 Oct 2006 16:04

What i noticed in most "bump" articles in the Netherlands, is that whitin the first five lines MCM is mentioned as a brand that sells bumpresistent locks.

It could be me, but i smell something fishy about that, since there are more brands selling those, but they're not mentioned.

Also in most cases they have an advert on the same page as the article.
Looks like a campaign to me.

Ronald

by **Bud Wiser** » 28 Oct 2006 16:34

I think it's one thing to not hide bumping and another thing all together to run with it.

I don't think we need to address "how to's" for bumping, or entertain every noob asking about it. We have a ton of information on it already!

As for statistic, forced entry still makes up for over 90% of the burglaries here in the USA. If some one wants to argue how many of that 10% are locks never locked or picked or bumped, be my freaking guest. As it is right now, forced entry is THE most used technique for thieves and burglars, and is the greatest threat.

I do agree that the police are not trained to determine if a resident simply forgot to lock their door, or if the lock was picked or bumped. I see no need to train any one for this just yet. IF the statistics change indicating a greater percentage of "non-forced" entries, say 25% or higher, then yes, train the police better! Or train them now.

So why don't I like to "run with bumping?"

Because I'm not naive enough not to realize that these statistic could change, and may actually be different in some regions. I understand not every one can afford better locks. I'm concerned with the ease even a 11 year old girl can bump a lock. But more importantly, I just don't see how this really pertains to lockpicking if it's bypass. Why can't we talk about other bypasses used for auto or higher security locks? Statistically those would be the least amount of threat as you either need expensive tools or more skill to learn to accomplish. Yet those topics are restricted and bumping is open?

I think bumping should be moved to the advanced section if for no other reason then to be consistent with our phosiphy. Post all the stickies you want on the basics of bumping in the open sections, but reserve discussion for it in the advanced. See how fast the topic does then

I agree we should hide bumping. I agree it does make up a small part of locksport. I don't agree it should be so openly discussed.

Just my opinion.

by **Bud Wiser** » 28 Oct 2006 16:38

Bud Wiser wrote:
I agree we should hide bumping. I agree it does make up a small part of locksport. I don't agree it should be so openly discussed.

CORRECTION SHOULD READ:

I agree we should NOT hide bumping....

by **digital_blue** » 28 Oct 2006 17:51

Well, the thing is, it's a question of semantics when it comes to what "run with bumping" means.

We have a forum here. People are able to make posts. They get to choose what they post about. We either allow discussion of bumping or we don't. Those are our options.

So, we allow it, because to do anything else doesn't seem practical, nor do I think it should be necessary. When I was learning about the topic, I enjoyed the benefit of being able to read about it, and ask questions.

db

by **specialist** » 28 Oct 2006 19:02

For the past month or so, I have been getting hammered with customers who are worried about the threat of bumping. Since the videos are widely available on the internet, they show bumping as something that can be instantly, with no skill at all. This is simply not true. Apart from being able to correctly manufacter a bump key, it does take a bit of practice to become proficient with it. Personally, I'm not too concerned with somebody bumping the lock on my house. I'd be more worried about them kicking in the door. I don't think we should hide bumping, but maybe make it less public i.e; create a seperate section just for bumping, that wouldn't allow a guest, or some random thug looking for quick info access. I realize that seems like a lot of trouble for nothing, but just a thought. Regards,

Specialist

by **maxxed** » 30 Oct 2006 2:46

I think that bumping is a usefull tool on site, providing an alternative meathod of entry when other meathods fail me. It is definitly prefered to drilling a lock.
To move dicussion to the advanced section may have some benifit however there are so many other sources of the same info.My obvection is what the media does with the info to sensationalize a story.eg reporting a 17% increase in B&E's when the reality is that there was 1 more B&E in the area. 17% is scary 1 more is news not worth printing

by **globallockytoo** » 30 Oct 2006 5:21

Expect to see many news reports across the US between November 2 and 26, on bumping. November is ratings month for the News services and it is also the month that investigative reports take a foothold in the news.

Someone very close to me was interviewed for a story recently to be aired in one of the biggest cities in the US next month, about bumping and products that cant be bumped.

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