impressioning bilocks

[Yadkci]

Sorry to double post, but i just remembered that bilock keys are Nickel silver, if i'm not mistaken. Probably going to be difficult to mark, but i have access to plenty of bilock stuff so thats not a problem.

Lol the only thing i'm worrie about now is ruining my impressioning file!

[globallockytoo]

Well,

I wish you luck. Unfortunately the original designer of the Bilock product, Brian Preddy, had already thought long and hard about what you are talking about before coming up with the Bilock design.

If it was as simple as what you are saying it is....he would never have been able to gain the Australian Standards highest possible listing.

Good luck trying. I hope to hear from you in 10 years time when you figure out ....it cant be done!

Also, new gen is mostly all that is produced these days so the theory wont work anyhow!

When you see Sean, give him my regards. I used to work with him in NT.

[Yadkci]

Well yeah, i wasn't expeting it to be easy, and i wasn't expecting to get it either! just a little experiment 'tis all!

Also you'd be suprised at how many places aren't on new gen, regardless, i wouldn't dream of using it during work, as most places we have their key cuts on file anyway.

When did you work at NMIT?

[globallockytoo]

Well yeah, i wasn't expeting it to be easy, and i wasn't expecting to get it either! just a little experiment 'tis all!

Also you'd be suprised at how many places aren't on new gen, regardless, i wouldn't dream of using it during work, as most places we have their key cuts on file anyway.

When did you work at NMIT?

Never did work at NMIT....I was at trade school When Max was in training to become a locksmith educator. He started teaching during my 3rd year of apprenticeship.

The original trade school was at Essendon tech before it was transferred to NMIT at Collingwood, then they made the permanent move to Heidelberg many years later.

I worked with Sean in Northern Territory.

[Yadkci]

Ahh small world isn't it!

Haven't had a chance to try my experiment yet, been too busy! don't go back to work till wednesday so i'll see if i get some time.

[n2oah]

This is a great example of how people should learn how the actual lock works before shooting off their mouths, especially with high security locks.

[TOWCH]

There are a lot of mouths shooting off in this thread. Which is the example?

[Yadkci]

This is a great example of how people should learn how the actual lock works before shooting off their mouths, especially with high security locks.

This is a great example of unneeded comments, no one has "shot off their mouths", we are having a discussion as per the thread topic and if you actually read any posts, these are theories.

When pin tumbler locks were invented, they didn't invent a way to pick them to go along with it, people developed theories which evolved into the practice of picking.

If you don't want part of this discussion, that's fine, but please respect others before you "shoot you're mouth off".

[n2oah]

Well, I was talking about the posts saying that you couldn't pick a bi-lock. I looked back at the dates, and most of them are from 2 years ago!

BTW, Yadkci, you used the wrong form of your in your post. Should you respect others before you shoot off you are mouth, or before you shoot off your mouth?

[globallockytoo]

Now think about whats happening inside the lock, (for arguments sake, lets assume it's not a new gen.) The incorrect pins are not allowing the sidebar to retract, therefore when the key is pulled, this pin can still move up and down, making no mark on our blank.

The correct pins however, will not move, as the sidebar can ever so slightly enter the hole, preventing the pin from moving, and marking the blank once the pins are pulled.

So this theory suggests that the correct pins will mark and not the incorrect pins... Maybe i'm onto something here

I have been thinking about what you said here and it finally dawned upon me. This theory is not possible because in order for the side bar to locate, all the fingers have to be correctly aligned with the correct combination simultaneously.

If one of the fingers is aligned up correctly, you wouldnt know because the other fingers may not be lined up either and the side bar will remain extruded, thereby not putting pressure on the pin to make a mark.

Sorry....back to the drawing board!

[Yadkci]

Well, I was talking about the posts saying that you couldn't pick a bi-lock. I looked back at the dates, and most of them are from 2 years ago!

In that case i apoligise for my outburst n2oah.

BTW, Yadkci, you used the wrong form of your in your post. Should you respect others before you shoot off you are mouth, or before you shoot off your mouth?

I haven't quite figured out how to edit posts on this forum!

yadkci wrote:
Now think about whats happening inside the lock, (for arguments sake, lets assume it's not a new gen.) The incorrect pins are not allowing the sidebar to retract, therefore when the key is pulled, this pin can still move up and down, making no mark on our blank.

The correct pins however, will not move, as the sidebar can ever so slightly enter the hole, preventing the pin from moving, and marking the blank once the pins are pulled.

So this theory suggests that the correct pins will mark and not the incorrect pins... Maybe i'm onto something here



I have been thinking about what you said here and it finally dawned upon me. This theory is not possible because in order for the side bar to locate, all the fingers have to be correctly aligned with the correct combination simultaneously.

If one of the fingers is aligned up correctly, you wouldnt know because the other fingers may not be lined up either and the side bar will remain extruded, thereby not putting pressure on the pin to make a mark.

Sorry....back to the drawing board!

I see your point, but often when testing cores out of housings, i use my fingers to push in the sidebars, and, if the new apprentice (:P) has keyed it wrong, then sometimes half the sidebar would push in. Although this is flawed, as it would obviously work differently inside the lock.

But hey, lets not quit yet, it can't hurt to try! Maybe i'll stumble across something else while i'm messing around.

[Mutzy]

Yadkci, it may be possible to thin the sides of the key, allowing for a (ever so slight) better marking. It's what I was taught for getting the spacing right for impressioning the C4 and C24 profile locks.

Btw, what year apprentice are you?

[globallockytoo]

Yadkci, it may be possible to thin the sides of the key, allowing for a (ever so slight) better marking. It's what I was taught for getting the spacing right for impressioning the C4 and C24 profile locks.

Btw, what year apprentice are you?

I think you are missing the point....thinner sides of the keyblank will be useless unless you have the head already installed...the trigger in place...and then , oh yeah, the pins dont create a shear line above them...so all your theories are blown out the window....

GM came out with sidebar locks many years ago....not many people can impression them but it is possible....Abloy is based on the sidebar principle too and they cannot be impressioned either...medeco locks cant be impressioned either unless you have prior knowledge of the rotations

Bilock has all one length of steel pin....false cuts in non mastered pins...and brilliant inbuilt security devices like the side bar blocking mechanism.

Aside from the fact that with impressioning, you need to have movement of the blank to cause marks...any movement of a specially made Bilock keyblank, would immediately throw the sidebar blocking pin into action preventing the side bar from dropping...if it doesnt drop, you cannot determine if you have made the correct depth or not.

Sorry, Keep 'em coming.