Foley- Belsaw lesson on impressioning a pin tumler lock

[lightfoot]

I just started on lesson 22 in the F-B program and it's my first attempt at impressioning. So far out of the 5 blanks they sent with the lock I've broken 3- have yet to see any type of marks they tell me should be visable. I have plenty of good light- a magnifying glass etc; and I still can't see squat. They instruct you to insert the blank and turn it firmly to the left and then to the right and then rock up and down while turned to the left and then to the right - I have tried til I'm blue in the face and I cannot see marks to give me an idea on spacing or depth. I need help !
Any body with any suggestions ? I would love to hear them . Thanks,

[burchlockkey]

First, what kind of lock is it?

[Shrub]

Have a read of the impression thread Varjeal made, its a very good thread,

Somthing i sometimes use is a black marker pen run along the top of the key, this shows up the marks well and ive also used liquid paper/correction fluid spread thinly but this can leave bits in the lock,

[jimb]

I had the same problem with this lesson. They tell you that you can take the lock apart and make the key if your having problems, which is what I did. I read everything on the net I could find and still could not see any marks once the filing began.

One of the problems could be the file they send you, as it is fairly course. I also always wondered how many times that lock had been impressioned by students and if excessive wear could have been the problem. I have since successfully impressioned some auto keys with a pipin file, but have not tried to do another deadbolt.

[Keyring]

Are the blanks they send you actually brass? I seem to remember someone complaining that they were steel. I believe that the softer metal marks more easily, though to be honest I still haven't had a go myself.

[freakparade3]

I have the file FB sends. I'm ordering a better one, I think the one they send is not very good. As far as impressioning goes, I'm doing it now. In theory it sounds so very simple. I have learned it is not. One point I will add that may be common sense to some people but not others is to make sure when widening cuts that you have the smooth side of your file DOWN on the key so you don't cut deeper at the same time you are widening the cut.

[ldnlksmth]

go through it from the start:

1. make sure you have lots of light
2. very lightly file off the plating on the top, make it 'duller' than when you started
3. make sure you only file on the 'push' stroke, so that you don't polish the surface
4. if you're breaking keys, you're turning too hard. just hard enough to bind, then up and down, less pressure than you're using. I find it helps to do it in both directions before looking for marks
5. look at the key from different angles, and I would recommend using a magnifying glass

[freakparade3]

I have found that smoke works much better for me that marker to mark the key. I just can't get good enough marks with a sharpie.

[linty]

i cheated on my courses pin tumbler impressioning :)
honestly, impressioning is a useful skill but in pin tumblers i have yet to come across any realistic use for it.

[globallockytoo]

i cheated on my courses pin tumbler impressioning
honestly, impressioning is a useful skill but in pin tumblers i have yet to come across any realistic use for it.

How about the ability to open and make a key at the same time without dismantling the lock?

Useful when you cant pick or bump it open. and might only take 10-20 min

[globallockytoo]

or, for that matter, when dismantling a laminated Master padlock is too much effort...it is easier and cheaper to impression

[franko452000]

boy! do i remenber that lesson. i cheated as well, hell ! in a sence what they did was give you a 3 combination too a 4 combination lock. after the first marks i filed that dam " V " like the pic. showed. i use a pippen file and make the bottoms of my cuts as smooth & flat as possible, this has helped me a lot.

[ldnlksmth]

when I was in high school, I had an english teacher who said "you can cheat if you want, but you're not cheating me, you're cheating yourself".

I have only once needed to impression a lock, and that was a day lock on a safe that had been thrown and then the key went walking- lock not designed to be taken apart.

Whether you use the skill or not, the point is to be able to do it in case one day, on some distant planet, it's your only option.

And hey, if that ever comes up, just call me. I'll be happy to take the money from the customer because you couldn't be bothered to learn the skill.

[hippy5749]

I too am in the same boat. I skipped over this lesson and completed all the other ones. Now I am going back to finish it. I tried for a couple of hours to do this with no luck. I am hoping the sandpaper trick I read in a post will help. I am trying VERY hard not to cheat on the course because I want to learn every aspect of the business that I can. BTW, has anyone made and used (with any regularity) the hacksaw tool mentioned in the later lessons? Just curious............

[ldnlksmth]

I've used variations of the tool, but as it's designed, no. I think it was HPC (could be mistaken) makes a tool called the SHOVIT that does the 'credit card trick' for spring bolts.

I prefer not to use homemade tools on the job. A couple of reasons for this: 1. it looks more professional to use tools with a namebrand on it.
2. it makes the job look more secure. If I show up with a couple hacksaw blades that I milled and riveted together, it makes the customer think either "this guy can't get the tools required, does that make him a burgler" or "why am I paying this much for a couple hacksaw blades". It also lends to the question "can anyone make these tools? how safe am I". While that might be a good sales technique, the job of a locksmith is to build security first, and defeat it only if absolutly necessary.

An aside (primarily for the advanced forums). I would never, under ANY circumstances use a NDE technique of any kind on a customers 'high security' lock (Medeco, ASSA, Abloy etc etc etc). If I can pick it, anyone can, and why is he wasting all this money on something that allows a bad guy to come and go with a couple of homemade tools.