Defeating Bumping

by **Kryoclasm** » 12 Nov 2006 3:09

I have been thinking of a method that could defeat the bumping technique. I have posted a diagram that I modified to show my idea.

As I do not have the tools at hand, could someone please attempt to replicate the modification and then try to defeat the lock by "bumping" it.

Remember, the added pin should be made of lead or something close in weight to the shear pin. this will minimize the jumping of the shear pin.

Please post your findings.

by **Availor** » 12 Nov 2006 3:20

The technique exists: You need several pins that will not touch the key. It is called "shallow drilling" - bump proof locks.

If the bump key will not touch the pins then it cannot pass the energy to those pins.

by **maxxed** » 12 Nov 2006 3:23

I have tried something similar before and found that it did make it more difficult as in 3 or 4 more strikes but thats all.

by **JackNco** » 13 Nov 2006 20:21

what about 4 pins, 3 above the shear line? an then make the middle above the shear line rubber or some kind of material to absorb the kanatic energy?

John

by **maxxed** » 14 Nov 2006 1:01

I'm not sure that the middle pin would be capable of absorbing enough kinetic energy, based on the size and mass that it would have to be. I think it should still be tested though

by **mrdan** » 14 Nov 2006 2:22

I would think it would work. Because only the last marble is affected by the one on the other end. (Or in this case, pin) If you could marry the pins above the shear line with a tighter spring just to help out, maybe. . . If I had a bump key I would try it out to see. But the theory is worth looking into. (At least until it's not. . )

by **melvin2001** » 14 Nov 2006 2:25

this has been discussed before

viewtopic.php?t=16049

but i like your diagram...

the short answer is "i have no idea". the long answer has something to do with me not actually knowing anything about physics and believing it might work if the topmost pin had more mass then the difference of the mass of the top and bottom pin, plus the mass of the center pin.

that probably doesn't make much sense but i described it in more detail on the 2nd page of the above thread.

by **Schuyler** » 14 Nov 2006 3:57

yeah, this theory, while sound on paper, has been physically disproved by a few of our members. That said? With some adjustments, perhaps there is a way to make it work properly.

Now, where did you learn to make such beautiful diagrams! That's gorgeous.

by **nezumi** » 14 Nov 2006 11:58

I'm curious, when disproved, was it through a few quick, successive bumps? The first one to knock the first pin up, the second to knock the middle pin?

by **Kryoclasm** » 15 Nov 2006 2:02

Well the key it to make the weight of the top pin to equal or exceed the wieght the the middle pin. Spring pressure is not a factor really. See the animation below to get what I want the top pin to do as opposed to the other 2 pins.

Assume that one of the balls on the end is the key, the 2 in the middle are the normal pins, the last ball on the end is the "new" pin on top.

by **Nasydave** » 15 Nov 2006 13:54

I think all you really need to do is cut a few top pins in half, so that when bumped, only the top part would go up. The lower section would stay put.

I don't think weight would matter.

by **zeke79** » 15 Nov 2006 14:29

Yes, weight does matter and Kryoclasm has the right idea. Your next task is to fashion a pin from a heavier material than brass and see if the idea works. It may work, you will just have to try it out.

by **Availor** » 15 Nov 2006 17:22

Again, why not just use shallow drilling so, lets say, two pins do not touch the bump key? No contact = no force transmission = no bump = no open = no luck = try again different method.

by **zeke79** » 15 Nov 2006 17:36

ok, if one uses shallow drilling on say a 5 pin lock then one only has to determine the common shallow drilling depth(s). Let's say the manufacturer uses one shallow drilling depth. We now know that it will only require 5 possible bump keys to bump that lock no matter where the shallow pin location is if one shallow drill is used.

If more than one shallow drilling chamber is used then you start to loose to many permutations that are valuable in a standard configuration but very valuable in master systems.

by **Kryoclasm** » 15 Nov 2006 21:20

If more than one shallow drilling chamber is used then you start to loose to many permutations that are valuable in a standard configuration but very valuable in master systems.

Right, plus, I'd like to see a soultion that is easy to put into existing lock systems without any major modifications.

A heavy-weight drop-in pin is quick, easy and unnoticable, not to mention very frustrating to a kiddy who is bouncing from door to door looking for a quick and easy B&E.

The reason I'm intrested in a good soulution to "Bumping" is because I was able to make and use a bump key to open my own door in less than 1 hour with no prior experiance. That is just plain scary.

It took me a lot longer to learn how to pick locks years ago when I ordered my first picks. Anyway, the modren lock is just too easy to bypass and needs some refinement. [/quote]

Defeating Bumping

Defeating Bumping

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