Legal question

[Availor]

I know that mostly you can suggest legal answers applying to the US and Europe, but still I'd like to get a second opinion.

I have a licensed locksmith friend. I suggested him filming a video on how to pick locks, including car locks and high security locks, safes and such, for the purpose of selling those videos online.

He told me that this is totaly illegal and aside from being drawn charges against by the police, the company may sue us for that (i.e. I show how I pick mul-t-lock and the company will sue me for that).

Nevertheless on the Toool website you can download video conference where they show the bumping technique. True that they show it on simple locks and not on high security locks, but still should it matter to the law which lock I pick? If it's simple lock then this is ok, and if it's a high security lock then it's not? And is it possible for the company to sue me if I found out how to baypass they mechanism? If this is the case, then if a car has manufacturar's flaw in it and I tell it to everyone then the company can sue me as well?

Your opinion on this one please....

[Romstar]

I can't speak to the law in your country, but.....

I think your friend is off base.

There isn't a company I know of that has ever sued anyone for showing how to pick one of their products. It simply doesn't happen. There was a rumour once that a fellow made a Medeco decoder and the thing just sort of vanished because of Medeco, but there wasn't a lot to substansiate that. If anyone knows differently, I would sure love to hear about it.

It is possible that in your country, the distribution of such information may be illegal, but I can't be sure.

I would strongly advise you to speak to at least two competent lawyers concerning the issue. If you get opposing views, then you need a third lawyer. You are looking for an education legal decision. You are not looking for opinion, you are looking for interpretation.

Good luck,
Romstar

[jimb]

I can't speak to the law in your country, but.....

I think your friend is off base.

There isn't a company I know of that has ever sued anyone for showing how to pick one of their products. It simply doesn't happen.

I would think a company suing for this would bring a lot of unwanted publicity. It would bring a lot of attention to the fact that the lock may not be a secure as the company claims or that people believe.

[Availor]

The question is, can I sell videos describing how to pick high security locks?

[UWSDWF]

The question is, can I sell videos describing how to pick high security locks?

Can you? I'm sure you can, no doubt in my mind that some poor schmuck is foolish enough to buy another one of thoes 'instructional videos'. I mean common people buy bottled water, you can market anything.

Legally? I couldn't think why it would be an issue that would come up, unless someone were convicted of B+E by means of your video and then the place that was robbed sued you for being irresponsible, but i seriously doubt this.

Morally? well if you want to be the next eBay video locksmith pusher that screws the good intentioned and criminal minded, go for it, by all means though I have never learned anything from one of thoes videos.

[Availor]

Thanks for the reply. I have given it a thought regarding the moral issue thing. But then there is this forum as well, people can just ask a question and get the answer. I'll have to think over it once again.

[JackNco]

I woudlnt bother if i was you. as uve said there are already loads about. and even if one person did buy it. it would just end up on torrent sites within a week. and if i know anything about this sort of community, especially the guys that make there own picks. there gonna just get it for free!

John

[Availor]

I woudlnt bother if i was you. as uve said there are already loads about. and even if one person did buy it. it would just end up on torrent sites within a week. and if i know anything about this sort of community, especially the guys that make there own picks. there gonna just get it for free!

John

Firstly, not everyone download illegaly aquired software/video lessons.
Secondly: There are loads of videos as there are loads of flower shops and food stores but still more stores are coming up. A market is a lot wider than you think, so even if some kids will download the videos for free using e-mule or torrent or whatever there will still be people who will buy it. Otherwise Adobe would get broke by now

[UWSDWF]

There are loads of videos as there are loads of flower shops and food stores but still more stores are coming up. A market is a lot wider than you think, so even if some kids will download the videos for free using e-mule or torrent or whatever there will still be people who will buy it. Otherwise Adobe would get broke by now

"There's a sucker born every minute...and two to take 'em." Phineas Taylor Barnum (July 5, 1810 – April 7, 1891)

[Availor]

Well I wouldn't say a person who buys something is a sucker. I'm sure you buy stuff every day you could get cheaper some place else, or you just don't need it. The term "gadget" means a product that you didn't need until you saw it. Once you've seen it you are not sure how you could possibly live without it (eventhough a second before you didn't even know of it's existence). This is called "market teaching" (sorry if the translation is wrong).

Anyhow, my question was about whether it was legal or not, I think I can deal with the marketing aspects


There are many books on lockpicking and still more are being published (and yes you can download it from emule as well), so if I actualy decide to make and sell this I am sure it will work.

[Romstar]

To the best of my knowledge, its legal.

The question is are you showing anything by way of tutorial? By that, I mean can someone learn how to pick by watching your videos.

As you have already seen, there is a derth of video on the net of people picking locks, and showing that it can be done, but there aren't a lot of videos instructing people on HOW to pick a specific lock.

Obviously, like anything else there is the matter of practicing what you are shown, but that still begs the question, are you instructing them on how to do it?

Will your videos include animations, cut-away locks, discusion of special tools for high security locks? Visible demonstrations of the proper way to hold tools, insert them, and use them?

Will the videos be clear, and close enough to show HOW you do it, and not just what you are doing?

One of the greatest problems in teaching anything with video is that you have to use the camera as if it were an eye. The human mind is capable of focusing on a wide variety of things and paying specific attention to small detail. A video camera is not. While you are making the video, you have to think about what is the most important thing, and focus on it. You may have to re-film the same thing over and over again to get multiple angles to show various aspects of a single technique.

Still again, without picking up tools, and actually putting them into a lock, many beginners struggle to pick up the basics at first. Will your videos address this, and all of the other aspects of picking a given lock?

These are things to think about before you promote any product. Otherwise, you won't get very far.

Romstar

[Availor]

What you say is very true indeed, and I've given it a lot of thought. Again, I needed to find out the legal terms before even starting. I am not going to rely on the forum completely and I will check with a lawyer or two. Indeed you are right, there is a major difference between me showing I pick a lock and me giving instructions on how to pick it, these are two different aspects also in the legal terms.

[UWSDWF]

Unless Isreal has some crazy laws that don't exist in the rest of the world, a simple disclaimer will cover you butt as much as needed. Also unless you have alot of $$$ there is no Lock manuf out there that is going to waste its time pursuing some guy who made a film on how to pick a lock.
The only thing you might have to worry about is if you worked for, either directly or through a thirdparty, for the company in question and then you'd be getting in trouble for leaking trade secrects/conflict of interest/breach of trust contract(if one was signed). Simply put unless you are going for a major production chances of a company even noticing you, especially amongst all the 'how to pick lock CDs' out there, let alone caring. Now if you are worried about criminal issues then in distribution then again a disclaimer will cover this ( ie: for entertainment purposes only) and if your super paranoid have a blanket waiver before purchase (this is super easy to do if being sold online). Lockpickshop.com even does this:

Buyer Responsibility: (back to top)

It is the responsibility if the BUYER, not Lockpickshop.com, to ascertain and obey all applicable local, state and federal laws pertaining to the possession and use of items ordered. Consult your local and state laws before ordering if you are in doubt. By placing an order, the buyer asserts that the products will be used in a lawful manner and that they are of legal age. Absolutely NO sales to minors! By placing an order for locksmithing tools, the buyer asserts to be a bonified member of the locksmithing industry or other qualified personnel.

stop pooping your pants, grow some cajones, and just do what you're gonna do.