Having trouble copying Yale and Dexter Bump Keys with belsaw

[jmac875]

OK,
I have been trying to copy Yale and Dexter 999 depth keys I purchased from eBay on my old Belsaw 200. (http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=13504&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15)

What is happening is that the keys will not stay in the key grips, and the cuts are so deep I have scored the grip on the cutting side.
Now I have stated in other threads that i might not have a good set of keys to start with, but I was wondering if anyone has any advice.

This is a picture of my original that I got from eBay. It it too big to put in the post.
http://www.geocities.com/jmac875/IMG_6381.jpg

Let me know if you see anything wrong with it, I am waiting for my digital caliper to come in, but I am getting impatient, and have time today to work on some projects, but I do not have copies of bump key to modify, only the original.

[jimb]

Did you calibrate it? If you have scored the grips then the depth keys are cut deeper than 9 or the machine needs to be calibrated.

I've been using mine out of my van and as long as I keep it calibrated it works good.

[Availor]

The best tool is a hand file, the maximum is a dremel-like machine.

[zeke79]

As jimb says, it sounds like your machine is out of calibration. If on the tracing side of your vice you can see the root depths on the bump key above the face of the vice then you are definately out of calibration.

Hope that makes some sense.

[jmac875]

Jimb,
The machine is calibrated, and the keys are most likely cut deeper then a 9. I suspected my original set as being poorly made. Thanks Bud

I will just have to wait for my hand clippers and my digital micrometer.

[jimb]

Jimb,
The machine is calibrated, and the keys are most likely cut deeper then a 9. I suspected my original set as being poorly made. Thanks Bud

I will just have to wait for my hand clippers and my digital micrometer.

You could use the caliper to back off the cuts a little, then take the cuts deeper with a file.

[jmac875]

The problem is that the bottoms of the cuts (root depths) are below the face of the grip. I have to shim the bottom of the grip to get the bottom of the cut above the grip face.

[zeke79]

For the time being you can use a piece of paperclip behind each blank to bring the root depths up. Since we are talking about bump keys this should be fine as long as the root depth still ends up measuring the deepest cut or a bit deeper.

Can you take a measurement of the root depth on the key you bought an post it here?

[jmac875]

I do not have my micrometer in yet. But I will give a full breakdown once it is in. I hope it will come Monday.

Thanks for the help guys.

[maxxed]

I can tell just by looking at your original key that it is ok. A 9 depth on that blank just stops at that ridge on the key.
I have noticed that most key machines only grab the bottom .125 of the key a 9 depth on that key is .149 deep so there should be a reasonable gap between the cutter and the vice

Double check your calibration put a blank in each vice and see how much material is remove fron the one on the cutter side. It should just remove enough to polish the top.

[jmac875]

Got it Maxxed. I will double check the calibration.

Thanks for the info.

[maxxed]

YVW

[jmac875]

Ok so when I was double checking the calibration. I decided to put my Yale depth key in and really take a look at how the key reader was making contact. I found that the top of the reader was touching the face of the key grip when the reader would go into the valley to read the depth of the cut. I tried repositioning to reader arm, and recalibrating the micrometer, but when I backed the arm off, I could not extend the reader out far enough to read the key.

After I thought for a little while, I decided to file an angle cut into the top of the reader, so when it red deep cuts it would not bottom out on the grip.

Here is a picture of the work, the face of the reader that touches the key is not modified, only the top that is not used.



Once this was done, I was able to copy any key, no matter how deep with out an issue.

Thanks Maxxed, if you had not doubted my calibrations, I would not have gone back and looked this in depth.

[maxxed]

I usually find that when such things don't function correctly, focus on the basics. I often get side tracked on a problem and over think it.
It is great that you were able to sort it out and now have a working machine